Russian Ammo

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Grizzfan

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There hasn't been a post in the Ammo section since May 2019 so I guess everyone is stocked up!! I'm copying my post today from there as that section appears to be dead.

It's hard to find USA name brand ammo on any site or in local stores. I bought some local Montana reloads by "Granite Ammunition" that the shop owner said was "the best, you'll like it", at 84 cents a round.

All I could easily find online was TulAmmo (Russian) in steel case that runs about 78 cents a round including shipping. (Brass cased TulAmmo is on back order). Is this stuff any good? I'll probably be shooting the reload ammo first, but am curious about this Russian ammo and your experience with it. Thanks.

Tom
 
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It's okay to shoot in most weapons. You won't really know until you try. I've never paid more than .18-.20/round for steel cased .223, but I haven't bought any in six months or so. I have shot their 9mm in pistols as well. It fired okay, but it made the slide feel like it was operating in "slow motion" compared to brass cased ammo. I only bought it once for 9mm, but I have shot several thousand rounds of .223 through a handful of ARs.

I'm just sitting on what I have until prices come down closer to "normal." I refuse to pay panic pricing for ammo unless it becomes absolutely necessary.
 
When i picked up my Sport 2, the only ammo available (while keeping my arms and legs lol) was some Tulammo Steel case. I only ran it one time so far but it functioned fine. And considering my first time shooting an AR (and using stock sights) I was happy with it’s “grouping”.
I still have some boxes and will use them up when able. I would prefer to only run brass and that is my intention moving forward, but in these crazy times I will also make some allowances so I can hit the range.
 
Steel cased ammo likely will do no harm to your gun as the steel is probably much softer than gun steel, but I think I would wait until better (brass cased) ammo became available.
 
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Thanks guys. I'm a newbie to this AR (last time '68-69 in a far-off place) so I needed something. I'm on a notice list for some brass TulAmmo that comes with a range bag. But it's snowing pretty deep now in Montana so it'll be a while before I get to shoot this thing regardless what transpires.

Tom
 
If you shoot that steel cased stuff you have to really really clean your chamber. Older stuff had a lacquer coating that would melt when your rifle got hot.

Newer stuff has some sort of film finish that will also build up if you shoot enough.
 
I been shooting Russian ammo of most calibers. But my rifles have industrial hard chrome bores and chambers. Plus the cases are coated that probably cushions the chamber anyway.

The most accurate Russian ammo I found is Barnaul brand. But I shoot tula and wolf too.

I hope the ammo prices come down soon. The last 1,000rd case of 223 was $125, wolf. The 500rds of 45acp wolf was $62.
 
Tula is probably the weak sister of the Russian brands, I use a lot of Wolf Performance in both my AR and AKs and have never had a problem with it.

I've used both the lacquered and polymer cases without any noticeable problems either, cleaning guns after shooting is the best part of the day!
 
My co-worker at work got a new S&W M&P 15 last year. The number of failure to feed and stuck casings inside the chamber was borderline legendary. Yes...the chamber was clean and the different magazines were used. I had to "mortar" stuck/unfired rounds from the chamber on two occasions with the rifle.
 
The thing with the Russian and other import steel cased ammo that you need to be aware of is that the projectile is not lead with a copper jacket, it is lead with a bi-metal jacket made of mild steel and copper. This bi-metal jacket will wear your barrel faster.

Not all steel cased ammo is equal. Hornady has a steel cased ammo that uses the same projectile as their brass cased ammo, thus it is cheaper than their brass cased ammo and doesn't cause additional wear.

So now that you have started down this rabbit hole, you can find tons of arguments over steel cased ammo on the net, and how much it will reduce your barrel life.. If you look at your barrel as being a consumable and realize that with the cost savings of steel cased ammo over brass, you can replace the barrel and still be ahead on cost.
 
I shoot steel-cased Tula in my PTR-91. Two reasons, the fluted chamber can be rough on brass and the rifle flings empties into low earth orbit. For a reloader both are negatives. Some would argue that the fluted chamber marks are a non-issue. It truly becomes a non-issue when I can't recover the cases!

So that brings me to my next point. Why not take up reloading? Components are tough to find right now and when you do, they're pricey. But reloading does give you some fliexibility; you can judiciously use a variety of different components and you should be able to save some bucks once you get past the initial investment. Plus it would give you a pastime during the long cold winters.
 
Have shot A LOT of Tula .223, 9mm and .45.
It is 'plinking grade' ammo. Expect not much more than that and you'll not be disappointed.
I am leery of it after an incident last year. I was down to my last few rounds of it in .45 ACP, and had a VERY loud report from my Colt series 70, and the slide was locked 1/2 way back.

Found a ruptured case halfway out of the chamber - clearly a overcharged or maybe double-charged round. Case completely blown out at the unsupported section of the chamber.

Externally, the gun was OK., one grip screw did shear off. VZ grips took the abuse without breaking. Magazine and the few rounds in it were scorched.
The trigger bow was bent outwards and function was trashed and no proper sear engagement could take place.

It was all fixable - but I kept remembering running that same ammo in a beloved old M1937 Brazilian .45 revolver. It would have killed that one.

Still have a bunch of Tula and Brown Bear Rusky stuff in .223 and 9mm, but sorta glad my .45 in that is all gone. I'll gladly go back to loading my own for that.
 
A friend of mine gave me a bunch of Wolf steel cased 9mm and I shot it in my AR with no issues. I buy steel cased rifle ammo to shoot in my AK's, they were designed to shoot it. Have never purchased steel cased handgun ammo.

Read a good article at lucky gunner labs where they compared .223 ammo from Federal, Brown Bear, Wolf and Tula. You will probably stay away from steel cased, bi-metal ammo in your AR after reading it.
 
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My first AR has over 8K rounds of 99%+ Russian steel case through it. I can count the amount of malfunctions it's had on one hand. While taking a carbine class a few years ago, I was #2 in the class in accuracy. Some rifles will absolutely hate it.

It is dirtier, and it is less accurate, but if your AR can't run it, something's wrong. As someone once told me, if it can't run steel, it doesn't deserve brass.

It will cause more wear & tear to your barrel, but the cost savings can justify it. When I notice a decrease in accuracy of my chrome lined barrel, I'll be way ahead of the game. I figured I've saved enough already to more than cover a replacement.

It also depends on the type of shooting you do. It is less accurate, and you'll probably notice a POI shift compared to the brass case you're using. Don't expect much better than 2"-4" groups at 100 yards. If it's mostly indoor range, or plinking type stuff you're doing, if you're missing, it's not the ammo.
 
Pre March 2020 prices, Lets say your steel cased ammo was $50 less per thousand, and your barrel has a fair bit of wear by 7,000 rounds down the tube, you have saved $350. That buys a NICE barrel. You stretch it to close to 9,000 rounds, you get a NICE new bolt too.

The barrel and bolt are wear items. Same with magazines. Accept this fact and THEN make your choices.

I though ahead, and got a spare 7.62x39 complete upper a year ago. 7.62x39 steel cased is still available for not too bad prices on back-order lots of places. If things get ugly, Steel cased will work just fine.
 
Have fired a tremendous amount of the Russian steel cased ammunition, both rifle and pistol. In AR-15 rifles, it has given accuracy equal to common popularly priced ball ammo whether domestic or import. Have never had a malfunction w/ it in a AR-15. Have fired .30-06 steel cased in my 1903 rifle. POA was POI at 200 yds. using the normal 200 yd. sight setting with the rear leaf sight raised. Fired 180 rounds at one stretch. Never a problem with function, firing or ejection. The bullet was IIRC 145 gr. FMJ which I thought odd. But, it shot as well as common ball ammo available. Have first I don't have any idea at all how much of the steel cased pistol ammunition in 1911, S&W 625-2, Glock 17, Glock 22, and RIA 1911. Have not ever had a issue with the ammunition. It has shot perfectly well in all my pistols. I have only used .45ACP in my 625-2. In every respect, it has been excellent ammunition. It tends to be a bit sooty compared to other brands of ammunition. But, that is no big deal. It cleans off with normal effort. HTH. Sincerely. bruce.
 
There is NOTHING wrong with SCA. I shoot it in all of my AR's without ANY problems.
Go look around on YT and you will see A LOT of AR shooters shooting SCA.
 
I also believe that a nitrided barrel extracts easier than a std barrel, FWIW. Harder, and potentially smoother surface. And will last longer than an untreated barrel shooting Russian-based steel cased and bi-metal jacketed projectiles. Once again, a harder bore will wear longer.

With the money you save, you can shoot a lot more. Especially if it is training ammo.
 
Some ammo available

The Armory finally is selling .223 Wolf Performance, 280 rounds for $369+ shipping in a range bag!!! Prices may never come down. That's the only "bulk" quantity that is available.

Tom
 
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