10/45 S&W barrel life?

hammy5150

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I was reading an interesting old article on a torture test American Handgunner did on the 1006 back in 1990 with 10,000 rounds of hot 10mm over six hours. Even with factory reject ammo the 1006 seemed to hold up pretty well, except where they note that the barrel rifling seemed to be gone altogether at the end of the test. Now I don't know if I'll ever get that much 10mm to even put through my own 1006, but it was already pretty well-used when I got it, I'm planning on keeping it for a long time, and I doubt replacement barrels will get easier to find as time goes on, same deal with my 4566TSW. Can anyone with the 10mm or .45 3rd Gens attest to how many rounds they've put through their guns before wearing out the rifling?
 

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My 1992 4506-1, (which I bought new and was sent to my house,) has over 10,000 recorded rnds through it. That’s when I was shooting every other week and keeping track. It’s had more since then.

For the most part I’ve fed it with my favorite loads which are based around a 185 grn Lee swc hard cast. (Not the Lee we think of but a somehow related to, (that was,) in Portland. Granted these are not jacketed ones but they are hard. It’s also had plenty of jacketed bullets of all available weights, hand loads and factory.

I can see no “appreciable” barrel wear and it is still as accurate as it was new.

Jim
 
I certainly don’t have the answer but I’ll go out on a limb and say that whatever might be true for 10mm isn’t at all likely to be the same for .45, or vice-versa. Literally talking about twice the max pressure and significantly more bullet speed.
 
I remember that article! It is safe to say that the 10mm barrel life is 10,000 rounds, but only if you are engaged in a 6 hour fire fight, popping off rounds as fast as you can. I would say that the barrel life of a 10mm when shooting in a much more normal fashion is probably 20,000 rounds or more. The 45 ACP operates at a much, much lower pressure, barrel life of a 45 ACP will be even longer, at least twice as long as a 10mm barrel.
 
They fired 10,000 rounds of hot ammunition in a very compressed amount of time. This generated a high amount of heat and friction that your 45 will probably never encounter. The highest round count I've ever put on a .45, before sending it down the road, is 70,000 rounds and that pistol still had the original barrel. The parameters of their test were unrealistic and aren't really a legitimate indicator of reliability, especially when you're trying to relate them to a low pressure round like the .45acp. This article is entertaining, but really only serves as gunrag fodder.

Nothing to see here.
 
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There use to be a member here with a 4506 no dash that he had a documented 29K rounds through. He reported it was still as accurate as the day he bought it. Regards 18DAI
 
They fired 10,000 rounds of hot ammunition in a very compressed amount of time. This generated a high amount of heat and friction that your 45 will probably never encounter. The highest round count I've ever put on a .45, before sending it down the road, is 70,000 rounds and that pistol still had the original barrel. The parameters of their test were unrealistic and aren't really a legitimate indicator of reliability, especially when you're trying to relate them to a low pressure round like the .45acp. This article is entertaining, but really only serves as gunrag fodder. Nothing to see here.

Actually, having read the original article when it first appeared in that 1990 issue of AH, I can tell you those '10K rounds fired' were Winchester 175 STHPs that were actually doing about 1300fps (official boxflap stat sez: '1295fps').

But you also have to remember the timing context: this 10K-round 'destruction test' was done before the .40S&W cartridge was a thing and before the watering-down trend of 10mm ammo generally had taken hold among ammo-makers - large or small.

In other words, those 10K rds of Winchester STs were in fact as close to full-power 10mm ammo (for that bullet-weight) as was available then.

For comparison, Norma's 170gn hard-edged HP load, originally loaded to 1400fps in the early lots, had been dialed back at Dornaus & Dixon's request to 1300fps, in order to mitigate 'wear & tear' problems they were seeing in Bren Ten pistol being returned for repair under warranty.

So a 175gn Winny ST that was really doing at or near 1295fps-1300fps wasn't a .40-level junk load by any stretch.

To its credit, that S&W 1006 survived the test with only a couple of small parts breakages, but was still functional and would still fire. IIRC, Smith even asked to have the pistol returned to the factory for study and evaluation by S&W engineers.

Norma velocity and energy levels were then still the comparative standard (depending on bullet-weight), and most non-Norma 10mm ammo on the market back then (e.g., Hornady, Remington, Winchester) was still relatively hot.

The ascendance of the .40S&W's ballistics after about 1992 prompted the general watering-down of the 10mm to 40-levels ... Winchester included.

And while the 10mm STHPs were spec-ed to an alleged velocity of '1295fps,' that was done using a special 5.5" factory test barrel, not the barrel of a real-world pistol, like a 5" 1006 or 4.6" Glock 20.

Samples of 10mm STs chronographed in the late '90s and early 2000s, using 5" Delta Elites and G20s, got readings averaging in the low 1100s/fps. In other words, nowhere close to Winchester's claim of '1295 fps,' even factoring for a 5.5" test barrel.

The watered-down 10mm remained standard factory policy, at least among the Big Three, until the very early 2000s when something of a resurgence started, harking back to the 10mm's original 'high performance' roots as a true magnum-level cartridge chambered in semi-automatic pistols of reasonable size and weight.

There were, happily, a few recalcitrant exceptions even in the '90s: the old ProLoad outfit offered a couple of decently-hot 10mm loads, and Hornady retained a 180gn XTP 'full load' specimen that did about 1180fps. That's what we'd now call a 'mid-range' 10mm load - 1300+fps being the full-power range for that bullet-weight.

The rest as they say is history ... Texas Ammo Company appeared briefly and offered four full-throttle loads, one being a 200gn load (FMJ-FP or XTP-HP) at 1250fps.

McNett opened Double Tap publicly in 2002, and by using special hybid powders that were unavailable in the 1980s, he was able to achieve higher velocities across all 10mm bullet-weights with less pressure.

Since then, other so-called 'boutique' ammo-makers have appeared and also offer full-throttle 10mm ammo using various bullet-styles and weights: Underwood and Buffalo Bore to name two popular ones.

Plus, all these makers develop and chronograph their retail 10mm ammo using real-world 10mm pistols, like 5" Delta Elites (or comparable 1911s) or one of the ubiquitous 10mm Glocks.

No special, secret-squirrel 'test' barrels of abnormal length for these guys! ;)

:cool:
 
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That was strictly a torture test, exceeding what even the U.S. Army does to test pistols. If I recall correctly, they did the same test on a 5906.
 
I do think this incident was a testament to the 3rd generation design and quality. Given that the ammunition supplied was obviously of factory seconds nature, it's impressive there weren't more issues.

Frank's right, there was no such thing as a downloaded 10mm back then. Those early loads were pretty sporty.
 
Ok what gun is it ? I'm curious to know who makes this weapon! That's a heck of an ammo tab :cool:

It's a Colt 1911 put together by the Custom Shop. I carried it for ten years as an off duty weapon and it was the gun I taught him to shoot with.
 
I was reading an interesting old article on a torture test American Handgunner did on the 1006 back in 1990 with 10,000 rounds of hot 10mm over six

They said they weren't sure what caused the malfunction they show in the article and called it a failure to feed. Any good gunsmith can ID that one. It was caused by either short recoil or a weak mag spring. In the photo it appears the sldie tried to strip the round from the mag at the extractor groove instead of the base of the cartridge. This usually causes that round to stick almost straight up instead of going in the chamber. Either the slide didn't come far enough to the rear because of a weak grip, or the preceding round was short on "umph". Can also be caused by a weak mag spring not keeping up with slide speed. During recoil a cartridge will drop away from feed lips. This normal. When the mag spring gets weak it doesn't push that round back up under the feed lips fast enough for the slide to catch the base. It will often catch the round at the extractor slot, causing this type of malfunction. My two cents worth, but, someone else might find it useful if they experience the same type of failure. Probably wasn't the guns fault. The 1006 is a beast and super durable.
 
I do think this incident was a testament to the 3rd generation design and quality. Given that the ammunition supplied was obviously of factory seconds nature, it's impressive there weren't more issues.

Frank's right, there was no such thing as a downloaded 10mm back then. Those early loads were pretty sporty.

You guys are right on. I still have some 200 grain Norma I wouldn't shoot in anything but a 1006. It would beat an early Colt to death.
 
I was reading an interesting old article on a torture test American Handgunner did on the 1006 back in 1990 with 10,000 rounds of hot 10mm over six hours. Even with factory reject ammo the 1006 seemed to hold up pretty well, except where they note that the barrel rifling seemed to be gone altogether at the end of the test. Now I don't know if I'll ever get that much 10mm to even put through my own 1006, but it was already pretty well-used when I got it, I'm planning on keeping it for a long time, and I doubt replacement barrels will get easier to find as time goes on, same deal with my 4566TSW. Can anyone with the 10mm or .45 3rd Gens attest to how many rounds they've put through their guns before wearing out the rifling?
I seriously doubt the average guy will ever shoot a 1006 barrel out, much less break one. That gun is so much tougher than most other 10mms on the market. The slide weight alone is a big factor. Just don't fall out of a boat with one in your holster.
 
I read that article back then, and still have it around here somewhere. I've shot 10MM quite a bit in semi-auto pistols and revolvers. Mostly jacketed full power factory ammo and reloads. I know I've never hit anywhere near 10,000 rounds in any particular gun, and admit I've never detected any barrel wear in any 10MM handgun I've had. Wish Barsto still made barrels for the metal framed S&Ws, but in any case, wearing out a 10MM barrel is not anything I would lose any sleep about. I also have a S&W .45 ACP pistol that was carried daily in LE for a few years, shot in training, qualification and occasionally recreationally. It must have at least a few thousand rounds through it, with no barrel wear that I can see. This one has been shot with jacketed, but standard pressure ammo....
 

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