10 mm, 200gr pb, range report

[oldRoger]

After asking the board for help, I went forth to the loading bench resolved to push the 204gr,(nominal 200gr).10mm, lead TC bullets with 10grs of AA #7.
As I approached the bench I began to reflect on the latest Accurate max load 9.3grs alleged to produce 1090 [email protected]. What if this latest information is correct will I be making an IED?
“thus conscience does make cowards of us all and thus the native hue of resolution is sicklied o’er with the pale cast of thought”
So I loaded 20 rounds at 9.3grs. To the range I went with the 1076, the test rounds and some white box for a control.
What a disappointment! Feeble even compared to the white box. No signs of pressure at all, the cases did not eject with authority, recoil not snappy, etc.
I have now loaded another 20 W/9.5grs & 20 w/9.7grs. and I will put together still another at 9.9grs.
I have also found a Lyman load for their cast #401633 (200gr) AA #7 10.2grs =1184fps 28.4Kpsi max
This squares will with VAdoublegunner’s max load of 10.5grs = 1156fps.
.
To MMA10mm, I do have HiSkor 800X I have used it for .45acp, I think it meters poorly. Further 10mm loads in the 7.7-7.8gr range required come very, very close to compression, which makes me nervous.

 

[Skip Sackett]

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Roger,
I must have missed the thread you are talking about. I used to load for the 10mm but for revolvers, not autos.

There are some very good choices for powder out there to eek out the full effectiveness of the 10.

No offense to the ones that have given you this "other" data but, you stated you started with a maximum load and worked up from there. I don't want to offend you either but, that is irresponsible and then to post that is even more irresponsible.

Best practise, and it is suggested by every serious reloader, manual and expert available, is to start with a minimum load and work up from there. I seldom go all the way to the bottom of the data but I never start at the top, never.

You post about "feel" for control; don't you have a chronograph? I noticed there was no mention of velocity. If you are working up loads that are over maximum without one that is also an irresponsible thing to do. That is unless you have pressure testing equipment instead.

Maybe I am all wet and need to reread your post, which I will do, but it would seem that you need to clarify your testing methods.

 

[pinkymingeo]

The 10mm revolver spoils you. I honestly don't believe there's enough space in 10mm brass for enough powder to harm a 610. I use AA2 for my range loads, and there's no way to get a double and a bullet in the same case at the same time. Maybe a 1/3 overload, but that's about it. A max charge of AA9 pretty much fills the case. There's a lot of steel in that cylinder. Should be no problem.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Right again, pinky!

The 10mm revolver spoils you. I honestly don't believe there's enough space in 10mm brass for enough powder to harm a 610. I use AA2 for my range loads, and there's no way to get a double and a bullet in the same case at the same time. Maybe a 1/3 overload, but that's about it. A max charge of AA9 pretty much fills the case. There's a lot of steel in that cylinder. Should be no problem.

pinky,
That's the point of my post. The OP is using an auto though. I would feel completely safe using a M610 to work up load that are over SAAMI specs. I would follow normal procedure while doing it though. That's just me though!

 

[oldRoger]

Smith Crazy:
In defense of the replies to my earlier post.
Any lack of responsibility is on my head not my correspondents who listed starting and max loads in their information.
I reported my results above for those who were initially interested; I suppose caution should have dictated a PM to those who replied.

I have noticed a reduction in current published loads in the manuals for the 10mm from the days of its introduction. I don’t know why this is so, but I suspect Glock may have something to do with it.
I have a quantity of Zero 200gr lead TC bullets. Since the advent of the 40 S&W the 200gr pb evidently has fallen from favor, so the loads available are mostly old ones, in any case. I asked for a records search for loads for this bullet.
The loads quoted, but for one, were all from ten years or more ago with the pressures (in PSI not CUP) included.
The current max Accurate lists (for 200gr pb) is about where their starting load used to be.
Despite this old published data I used the latest I could find the max for which is almost exactly where Lymans starting load used to be.
I shoot at an indoor range in the summer almost exclusively; conditions there make setting up a chronograph impossible.
Parenthetically, I started handloading in 1958 and while doing the same thing wrong over and over does not necessarily mean 50 years of good experience, I hope that I am careful enough to stand next to at the firing line.

By the way, my (624& 696) loads for the 44spl, are also higher than those currently published by the powder manufacturers who have IMO wussified this fine old round in the interests of those who shoot TripleLocks.

My apologies if I have led anyone astray----do not try this at home!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Oh, I think I understand!

Wussified, oh I understand that! Different caliber though.

Here is some data from Accurate Arms' for the 10mm from their #2 manual. It is very interesting to say the least.


205 (L) FN

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No.2 4.7 862 No.2 5.2 979 33,800 1.250" Clements

No.5 6.3 935 No.5 7.0 1063 35,700​

No.7 8.4 960 No.7 9.3 1091 35,900

No.9 10.6 1018 No.9 11.8 1157 36,200

I think that letting folks know, maybe through a disclaimer of some kind is good sense on a public forum when using or espousing loads that are outside of current published data.​

You are quite astute to notice that 50 years of performance in an area doesn't necessarily make one an expert in doing things right, it either makes you fortunate or really well incorrectly trained! ​

Have a good one!​

 

[oldRoger]

Smith Crazy:
Yes, the loads you posted were the last anyone could find published for the 200gr lead.
I started with the max of 9.3grs because I had every reason to doubt it represented the top (see below). In fact in the shooting, it seemed quite mild, were it to be my everyday load I would put a lighter spring in the1076.

Disclaimer: all the loads below are for Accurate Powder’s AA-7, and are from old published data. Some I have saved from when I bought my first 10mm, I currently have a 1006, 1076, & Kimber Target II.
Your results WILL vary, use the latest data.

From Lyman about 2000 in a 2004 Load Data Compilation
Mould #401633 casts 200g in Lyman #2
Start: 9.1gr =1084fps Max: 10.2gr =1184fps @ 28,800psi (CUP)
Shooting Times, March 1991 Article says Accurate Arms Data tested in Delta Elite 200gr Pb
Start: 9.0gr =992fps Max: 10.0gr =1102fps
I am indebted to VAgunner for the following from his old copy of the 1991 American Handgunner 10mm Special Edition;
10.5gr =1156 no starting load given.

We know that the original 10mm load was 200gr jacketed at 1200fps (Norma) I am sorry to say that I have long since shot the Norma Ammunition that I had. I suspect wussfication because of the commercial ammunition I see for sale
It is very uncommon to see commercial loads from the big manufacturers at the old weight/ velocities, although Double Tap and Buffalo Bore get there. Double Tap offers the following gas check lead load:
10mm 200gr WFNGC Hardcast .


This hardcast Wide Flat Nose gas - checked bullet will not deform on impact. Excellent for hunting or woods protection!
Caliber : 10mm
Bullet : 200gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Hardcast
Ballistics : 1300fps/ 750 ft./lbs. - Glock 20

 

[VAdoublegunner]

Glad the info was of some help, oldRoger! I am very interested in seeing your chrono results. If I run across more data, I'll be glad to pass it on to you, but AA#7 seemed to rule 10mm heavy loads at the time.

Sometimes holding onto those old manuals helps, especially for cartridges in the 10mm class that have been significantly wussified over the years. I have a 1990 copy of Shooting Times that has several pages of "new" data for the wonder cartridge of the year, the 40 S&W. Most of it seems to have been extrapolated from 10mm load data rather than actual testing. There are quite a few 200gr bullet loads for the .40 at velocities exceeding current published data for the 10mm. Some of that .40 data will curl your hair (not to mention singe your eyebrows)!! I remember trying a few and thinking they were way too hot for the .40 at the time. However, the 10mm has been unfortunately downloaded too much, and I still use older data contemporary with the cartridge's heyday. I was fortunate to obtain about 1000 Hornady 200gr jacketed bullets in 40 for $5/100 a few years ago. They make a spectacular and very accurate load for the 1006 with proper doses of AA#9 or Blue Dot. I haven't seen any 200gr cast bullets in quite a while though.

I would also add that I agree with your assessment that load data for both 40S&W and 10mm have been wussified over the years solely because of Glocks so chambered. Early data did not have to be concerned with those poorly designed chambers. Nearly every load manual and powder manufacturer has specific warnings against loading for Glocks. Perhaps manuals should have "Glock only" load data, sort of the antithesis to "Ruger, T/C only" data!

 

[shovelwrench]

Got Chrony?

So Oldroger,
What did your chony tell ya?

And how bout some pics of the primers?

I'm not AGAINST goin over max published data, but lets see the puddin.

 

[oldRoger]

Somewhere above in the fine print I mentioned that I mostly shoot indoors during the summer. The Indoor Range will not allow me to set-up a chronograph because it would disrupt business. It is also dark as the inside of a boot in front of the firing line and smokey. The first bank of lights is at 7 yards..... So velocities will have to wait for dry weather.
When I finish shooting my test rounds I will post photos of the test primers. The 9.3gr primers show absolutely nothing unusual I will use those for my control.

I do have a source for 200gr lead moly coated TC if anyone is interested.

Also, Double Tap is selling the hardcast 200gr gas check bullets as well as the loaded stuff, IMO it would make a super woods load in areas where dangerous creatures might be encountered.