It’s the wrong brand
But pretty close to OP’s idea
But pretty close to OP’s idea
Last edited:
10mm K frame
- Thread starter pacecars
- Start date
One of Ruger's advantages is their stop notch is off center to chamber even with an even number of chambers. Also a beefier frame allows for larger barrel shanks. Rat is why their 45 colt cylinders will take more pressure in either the RedHawk or BlackHawk as they are the actually extremely close to the same OD as those of a S&W N frame
Egads to finding any of that .42 Magnum ammo, it’s scarce. Never caught on really, I remember their marketing, they really wanted to “one-up” similar and more established cartridges!
Thanks! Oops! But the .42 Magnum would be the more appropriate name for the .429 bullets of the “.44 Magnum”
The barrel shank would be the issue then. Thanks for the responses. I would think using “Carpenter steel” for a new cylinder would take care of that part but you can’t get around the frame issue. I would love to see the L frame in the 10mm in addition to the 610 N frame. The 610 should come in 10mm Magnum from the factory. My favorite 610 converted to the 10mm Mag
About "Carpenter steel". Steel specs are generalized by the ASME for the different types. 1000 series is plain carbon steel, 4000 series is chrome moly steel. The last two digits are generally carbon content. The specs for the various types include ranges of various other trace contents, like sulfur for easier machining, vandium and other materials. Often shows in the 3rd digit.
When you get to the proprietary steels, like Carpenter 158, you're looking at one of the ASME classes with proprietary amounts of the various alloying materials. Possibly with tighter allowable variance of the amounts of those materials. These things often result from someone's theory that the particular blend will have superior characteristics for some special use. That theory may/may not have lab test results that confirm that.
Without knowing what special qualities may exist (improved tensile strength, shear strength, elasticity, etc), if the differences are significant, and if/if not they have any bearing on your application, debating steel types is pretty meaningless.
Sometimes what's used in development/prototype work is what's on hand. Depending, that may carry over to production. There really aren't any magic materials, there's often a lot of interchangability.
When you get to the proprietary steels, like Carpenter 158, you're looking at one of the ASME classes with proprietary amounts of the various alloying materials. Possibly with tighter allowable variance of the amounts of those materials. These things often result from someone's theory that the particular blend will have superior characteristics for some special use. That theory may/may not have lab test results that confirm that.
Without knowing what special qualities may exist (improved tensile strength, shear strength, elasticity, etc), if the differences are significant, and if/if not they have any bearing on your application, debating steel types is pretty meaningless.
Sometimes what's used in development/prototype work is what's on hand. Depending, that may carry over to production. There really aren't any magic materials, there's often a lot of interchangability.
Last edited:
Carpenter made a lot of different steels. Some of their CPM steels are great, but they are not magic. Do what I have done. Take a set of calibers, start measuring and doing the math. My holy grail is a 5 shot 45 acp with a alloy L frame. I have bought a 696 a model 69 a 396 and a 296. I have measured and remeasured. Can't happen unless S&W redsigns the lock work to use a smaller ratchet the size of Charter Arms, and moves the chambers inward and the center of the barrel down even with the beefier barrel shank uses with the 2 piece barrel on the model 69.
The bottom of the barrel on a K frame 38 or 357 is just .047 thick. .400-.357=.043 .043/2=.0215 .047-.0215=.0255 That is not much metal when you want to guide bullets with it. It already cracks from time to time with some loads. Then the outside wall of a K frame 357/38 is just .066 thick. A 357 is .379 at the base and a 40 is .424 so .424-.379=.045 and 1/2 of that is .0225. .066-.0225=.0435 to contain the pressure. Nobody nowhere is going to take the liability for that taking the same pressures as a 357. They would be nuts to do so.
The bottom of the barrel on a K frame 38 or 357 is just .047 thick. .400-.357=.043 .043/2=.0215 .047-.0215=.0255 That is not much metal when you want to guide bullets with it. It already cracks from time to time with some loads. Then the outside wall of a K frame 357/38 is just .066 thick. A 357 is .379 at the base and a 40 is .424 so .424-.379=.045 and 1/2 of that is .0225. .066-.0225=.0435 to contain the pressure. Nobody nowhere is going to take the liability for that taking the same pressures as a 357. They would be nuts to do so.
Last edited:
keithhagan
Member
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2018
- Messages
- 221
- Reaction score
- 130
K-frame maybe, L-frame definitely
L-frame, for sure. I've done it twice.
K-frame, possible under certain circumstances:
That said, S&W could do a 5-shot 10mm on the K-frame if they would do what they did to the L-Frame to get 44 magnum to work (compare Model 696 to 69). There, for the 44 magnum chambered 69, they used a one-off larger diameter barrel shank than is standard on the other L-frames.
I'll note, if you just want a small revolver in 10mm and don't need it to be double-action, you can have a Ruger Single Seven (or Single Six/Ten converted to centerfire) fit with a 5-shot 10mm cylinder and barrel. They're even smaller than a K-frame.
L-frame, for sure. I've done it twice.
- once by taking a steel 357 cylinder and rechambering to 10mm then fitting to my 646
- another by taking a 6" 686-5 and having both the barrel bored and re-rifled to 10mm and the cylinder rechambered to 10mm magnum. I rechambered a second cylinder to a rimmed 10mm magnum using 30-30 brass.
K-frame, possible under certain circumstances:
- Custom 5-shot cylinder
- can't use the model 66/19 with the flat barrel shank (the vast majority), must use the new style from the 66-8 (thicker) even then not sure if thick enough. Will also need to contend with two-piece barrel
That said, S&W could do a 5-shot 10mm on the K-frame if they would do what they did to the L-Frame to get 44 magnum to work (compare Model 696 to 69). There, for the 44 magnum chambered 69, they used a one-off larger diameter barrel shank than is standard on the other L-frames.
I'll note, if you just want a small revolver in 10mm and don't need it to be double-action, you can have a Ruger Single Seven (or Single Six/Ten converted to centerfire) fit with a 5-shot 10mm cylinder and barrel. They're even smaller than a K-frame.
If they put a bigger barrel shank in a K frame they would need to increase the size of the frame where it threads in, because the portion under the barrel is already real thin. IF you make it thicker there you would have less material left on top of the yoke and guess what? There isn't much there now. Its .035 from ejector rod to the top of yoke. If you move the rod down it moves the cylinder down so you have to make the chambers farther out to line up with the bore and there is absolutely no material there to do that and still have steel left for outside of the chamber
There is .460 between the center line of a K frame cylinder and the chambers and hence the center of the barrel. Once you add up 1/2 the ejector rod, a bit from the ejector rod to the top of the yoke, then a bit for some frame frame under the barrel plus 1/2 the barrel shank there just isn't anything left for a larger barrel and shank unless you make the cylinder larger and then as you also have to make the frame larger to hold that cylinder, you have a L frame. LOL.
I have a set of calipers in my desk drawer along with J, K, l and N frames. I have maybe 20-30 loose cylinders from J frame to X frame and as many barrels in my shop. I even have a loose model 69 barrel. I know what the numbers are. You add to one you must subtract from others and visa versa.
A K frame is tapped out at .357 unless you want to keep the pressure down to the point your way more than defeating the point of trying to have more effective round.
I don't get why all those who want a 5 shot big bore don't do like I did and get a 396 or 386 (I have both) Lighter than a steel K frame, same grip size and the cylinder is just 0.10 bigger around. That is the thickness of 2 dimes. If that gives away your conceal carry or makes you uncomfortable, I suggest you carry a J frame anyway
There is .460 between the center line of a K frame cylinder and the chambers and hence the center of the barrel. Once you add up 1/2 the ejector rod, a bit from the ejector rod to the top of the yoke, then a bit for some frame frame under the barrel plus 1/2 the barrel shank there just isn't anything left for a larger barrel and shank unless you make the cylinder larger and then as you also have to make the frame larger to hold that cylinder, you have a L frame. LOL.
I have a set of calipers in my desk drawer along with J, K, l and N frames. I have maybe 20-30 loose cylinders from J frame to X frame and as many barrels in my shop. I even have a loose model 69 barrel. I know what the numbers are. You add to one you must subtract from others and visa versa.
A K frame is tapped out at .357 unless you want to keep the pressure down to the point your way more than defeating the point of trying to have more effective round.
I don't get why all those who want a 5 shot big bore don't do like I did and get a 396 or 386 (I have both) Lighter than a steel K frame, same grip size and the cylinder is just 0.10 bigger around. That is the thickness of 2 dimes. If that gives away your conceal carry or makes you uncomfortable, I suggest you carry a J frame anyway
Last edited:
The K-frame, like Steelslaver has said, is simply a no-go with a caliber larger than .38/.357. There simply is not enough steel in the barrel shank and frame, even if the cylinder was stronger. The L-frame and Ruger GP-100 (pretty much the same size as the L-frame) are a different story. Larger diameter barrel shank, more steel surrounding the barrel shank, and a larger cylinder.
Similar threads
