12 gauge double barrel pistol
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Autococker07
US Veteran
They aren't too bad, certainly not as snappy....
shouldazagged
Absent Comrade
Wouldn't want to carry one IWB.
Rpg
Member
Great item if you're a prop man for a movie.
There not bad with any of the low brass loads,but with full power oo buck they hurt.Plus since the fall under the NFA there's no market for them.The ones that are out there are mostly registered as SBS and then cut down and cost $200 tax stamp,unlike some of the cut down 870 and mossbergs that can be bought without a stock and transferred for $5 as a AOW.My buddy has one of each a double registered as a SBS and Serbu super shorty 870 as AOW.Both are fun toys and if I could have one it would be the Serbu 870
If the gun weighed about 4.5 pounds and you fired 1 ounce loads at 1000 ft/sec (not an unreasonable assumption for light loads in an 8 inch barrel), the recoil energy would be 21-22 ft-lbs. That's less than most .500 S&W Magnum loads in a similar weight revolver.
You could get around the NFA registration and tax if the barrels were rifled instead of smooth bore - that's how Taurus and S&W are able to sell .410 revolvers. I still don't see much of a market for this, but I'd sure like to shoot one!
You could get around the NFA registration and tax if the barrels were rifled instead of smooth bore - that's how Taurus and S&W are able to sell .410 revolvers. I still don't see much of a market for this, but I'd sure like to shoot one!
Taurus and S&W got around NFA by having rifled barrels and the ability to shoot .45 colt.
Taurus tried to bring in a larger shotgun pistol with rifled barrel and got shot down because it could not fire any pistol ammunition .
Edit by larger I mean 16 or 12 gauge
There's nothing in the law that requires a handgun chambered for shotshells to also be able to fire handgun cartridges - it just can't have a smooth bore.
Taurus did try to bring out a 28 gauge revolver a couple of years ago. A prototype was actually shown at the Shot Show. It held 5 rounds and was enormous - bigger than a .500 Magnum! I believe the reason Taurus never put this gun into production is that in consultation with the BATFE they were told that it could be considered a destructive device since it had a rifled bore greater than .50 caliber. Google "Taurus 28 gauge" if you're interested in this.
I guess if you want a 12 gauge handgun, you'll have to jump through the NFA hoops.
You are right there's nothing written that says a handgun that fires a shotshell also needs to fire a handgun round,however every one that's been approved without NFA paperwork in the eyes of atf is a pistol with rifled barrel in a handgun caliber that can also fire a .410 shotshell.There no pistols in a shotgun gauge only.They are .45 colt guns that can also fire a .410 it's really just that simple in the eyes of atf.If someone can design another gun in a caliber that would also accept the 28 gauge shell it would have a better chance of being approved by atf.
Alpo
Member
I think the problem with a 12-gauge pistol, even if it had a rifled bore, is that anything over 50 caliber is considered a Destructive Device. DDs are NFA, and still need paper.
There are a couple of things to think about with a SxS pistol.
First is "hammered or hammerless". Hammerless guns cock on the opening. Thus, the longer the barrel, the more leverage, and the easier it is to cock. And, the SHORTER the barrel, the less leverage, and the more difficult it is to cock. Denny's Guns, ten years or so back, brought in a bunch of Italian 20 gauge guns that had never had a buttstock attached, so he could make pistols and sell them a AOWs. In the article I read he mentioned how they had to rework the action, so it could be cocked with the ten-inch barrel. With a hammered gun, it opens easily, no matter how short or long it is, as the opening of the gun has nothing to do with the cocking of the hammers.
Then you have stock-shape. Anyone that has ever fired a Mossberg Cruiser, or similar, with a pistol grip at 90 degrees to the stock, is aware that they are painful, in an 8-pound gun. They are MORE THAN painful in a 4-pound gun. When fired they recoil UP, twisting your wrist. The stock on a Remington Witness Protection gun, on the other hand, has the gun recoiling BACKWARDS, pushing your shoulders. Much less painful.
Third is accuracy. Shooting a shotgun or rifle from the hip is not too difficult, as the shoulder stock is held against the hip, allowing you to use your body to help aim. When there IS no shoulder stock, you (or anyway, I) have a tendency to shoot left, as shown in this diagram.
http://s17.photobucket.com/user/therealalpo/media/Guns/hipshootingdiagram.jpg.html
Attempting any type of aimed fire is quite difficult without a shoulder stock. The two best ways are to pull backward on the grip with the shooting hand while pulling forward on the forearm with the non-shooting hand. This locks the gun in place, and allows fair accuracy, although it is a tiring position to use. It does not feel "normal", like just pulling the gun back into your shoulder does. The second way is one-handed, like a pistol. This is not too back, although (with MY gun) the back of the trigger guard tends to bang the hell out of the middle finger.
I have fired mine with two different types of ammo. Challenger (Canadian) target loads, 1 1/8 ounce of birdshot, both 7 1/2 and 9, and S&B (Czech) 00 Buckshot, 9-pellet. The target loads had much more recoil. The only explanation I can come up with for that is that the target loads were made with a fast-burning powder, and completely burned in the eleven inches of barrel, imparting all their recoil, while the buckshot was loaded with a slower powder, did not completely burn, therefore kicked less.
http://s17.photobucket.com/user/therealalpo/media/Guns/Cowboy/Mississippi10.jpg.html
There are a couple of things to think about with a SxS pistol.
First is "hammered or hammerless". Hammerless guns cock on the opening. Thus, the longer the barrel, the more leverage, and the easier it is to cock. And, the SHORTER the barrel, the less leverage, and the more difficult it is to cock. Denny's Guns, ten years or so back, brought in a bunch of Italian 20 gauge guns that had never had a buttstock attached, so he could make pistols and sell them a AOWs. In the article I read he mentioned how they had to rework the action, so it could be cocked with the ten-inch barrel. With a hammered gun, it opens easily, no matter how short or long it is, as the opening of the gun has nothing to do with the cocking of the hammers.
Then you have stock-shape. Anyone that has ever fired a Mossberg Cruiser, or similar, with a pistol grip at 90 degrees to the stock, is aware that they are painful, in an 8-pound gun. They are MORE THAN painful in a 4-pound gun. When fired they recoil UP, twisting your wrist. The stock on a Remington Witness Protection gun, on the other hand, has the gun recoiling BACKWARDS, pushing your shoulders. Much less painful.
Third is accuracy. Shooting a shotgun or rifle from the hip is not too difficult, as the shoulder stock is held against the hip, allowing you to use your body to help aim. When there IS no shoulder stock, you (or anyway, I) have a tendency to shoot left, as shown in this diagram.
http://s17.photobucket.com/user/therealalpo/media/Guns/hipshootingdiagram.jpg.html
Attempting any type of aimed fire is quite difficult without a shoulder stock. The two best ways are to pull backward on the grip with the shooting hand while pulling forward on the forearm with the non-shooting hand. This locks the gun in place, and allows fair accuracy, although it is a tiring position to use. It does not feel "normal", like just pulling the gun back into your shoulder does. The second way is one-handed, like a pistol. This is not too back, although (with MY gun) the back of the trigger guard tends to bang the hell out of the middle finger.
I have fired mine with two different types of ammo. Challenger (Canadian) target loads, 1 1/8 ounce of birdshot, both 7 1/2 and 9, and S&B (Czech) 00 Buckshot, 9-pellet. The target loads had much more recoil. The only explanation I can come up with for that is that the target loads were made with a fast-burning powder, and completely burned in the eleven inches of barrel, imparting all their recoil, while the buckshot was loaded with a slower powder, did not completely burn, therefore kicked less.
http://s17.photobucket.com/user/therealalpo/media/Guns/Cowboy/Mississippi10.jpg.html
Malpasowildlifer
Member
I always wanted one after I saw the Mad Max trilogy
I have an Savage 12 gauge that I shortened the stock on and cut a set of barrels to 18 1/2" Makes a handy dandy legal length shotgun. It rides around in the truck during hunting season and if I see some pheasants or grouse, out it comes and I get a couple for camp.
I agree with the stock on shoulder comment. I have shot mine in various ways and it is the way to go. Pretty wild when you use two hands down low by side and pull both triggers.
I agree with the stock on shoulder comment. I have shot mine in various ways and it is the way to go. Pretty wild when you use two hands down low by side and pull both triggers.
Biggfoot44
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You can easily have what you seek. As a muzzleloader.
In theory you could have a Class One handgun in .45LC/.410 . But bore sizes larger than .50 require an exemption from DD status. Common on "normal" fully rifled shotguns , but don't hold your breath for a quasi Howda .
Otherwise NFA for you. Some small shops have/ do get small batches of uncompleted SxS / O/U actions so as to build a few AOWs. The biggest upside isn't particularily the $5 Tax Stamp , but the ability to cross state lines w/o filing Form .20's . The downside , is not having the legal option to ever use a real butt stock ( as you could temporarily if registered as SBS ) .
The other question is are you interested in semi seriously shooting it , or just a dozen or two rounds at the range for the cute factor.
In theory you could have a Class One handgun in .45LC/.410 . But bore sizes larger than .50 require an exemption from DD status. Common on "normal" fully rifled shotguns , but don't hold your breath for a quasi Howda .
Otherwise NFA for you. Some small shops have/ do get small batches of uncompleted SxS / O/U actions so as to build a few AOWs. The biggest upside isn't particularily the $5 Tax Stamp , but the ability to cross state lines w/o filing Form .20's . The downside , is not having the legal option to ever use a real butt stock ( as you could temporarily if registered as SBS ) .
The other question is are you interested in semi seriously shooting it , or just a dozen or two rounds at the range for the cute factor.
