130gr HST ...... help

[Nevada Ed]

I just ordered 200 Federal 130gr JHP HST bullets for reloading.

I like the OAL of 1.18" for this bullet in a 38 case and only have the
148 BBwc lead bullet as a bullet that seats as deep to match the case powder volume and pressures, that I have tested with eight powders.

The 148 is lead and the 130 is copper but they should be close in pressures but
I would like to talk to any one that has shot this 130gr JHP with the deep seating to double check the four starting loads that I have with Bullseye, w231, Green Dot and Unique just to be on the safe side,

Otherwise , I will shoot the loads and post later on, on the results.
Thanks.

 

[mikld]

Why seating so deep? S&W Model 52?

 

[Bastogne71]

My goal is to duplicate the Federal 130gr HST load in my model 640. I’ve been searching the web for any information and found that several tests (Lucky Gunner for one) with factory ammunition from a 2” barrel yields about 825 to 850 FPS. Federal lists it at 890 FPS from a 4” vented barrel.

The problem is we have no reliable data at all. 130-135 grain information is for normally seated bullets but it’s all we have to go on. Seating flush will increase pressure. So will jacketed bullets. Compressed powder can quickly lead to disaster.

All that in mind, I loaded some to test through a chronograph with Alliant BE-86. I started with 5.3 grains with an overall length of 1.18”. That’s well below Alliant’s maximum of 6.1 grains for a 130 grain round nose bullet. Five rounds averaged 950 FPS well over my goal. I am going to try a lighter load but I think I may have to go with a faster burn rate powder. The primers looked good and extraction was normal.

Keep me posted on your results and I invite anyone else to add to our knowledge.

To be continued.

 

[pasound]

The HST in the box is loaded as a plus+. It shoots well in my 60-15 and 637. I don't shoot it in my other 60's. I would think loaded to the cannalure, it would duplicate other 38 or +p loads for a jacketed bullet. Seated flush as a HST HS, I would load it as a plus+ just like the factory. A soft load with this bullet might not expand. I would work up loads with 231, Bullseye, and Unique.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I will try to load Federal Fac Dup. ammo for my " snub nose
if possible and only go to the "Can" if things don't work out.

Even with the short OAL and the very deep bullet seating there is
plenty of case volume for Bullseye powder and HS-6, if you have any.

It is just a new learning process with the deep seated bullet and
trying to get the powders to get around 831 fps for a J frame snub nose revolver.

I have two family members that think the J frame kicks a lot and if.......
this load can get from 800 to 830fps, it will make shooting a SD load, oh so much sweeter for these lady's.

Yes the 135 GD and 158 FBI are good SD loads if you can handle RECOIL well............
I am just trying to improve the wheel, a little.

I will also be loading my 686 6" to help speed up the full load test and then down load for the J frame if needed.

After ten test loads I should be getting an idea on the pressures and fps that will start forming a pattern.

Later.

 

[Nevada Ed]

PS;

The federal load shows a 100% case volume powder.........

I will try to get this but I don't know if the powders I have will do this and I don't think IMR4227 will have enough fps and be clean burning.

I might have to settle for a 90% case volume powder, but we will just have to see what happens, since I will not use Trail Boss with a JHP bullet intended for SD use.

 

[Doug M.]

Might be easier and just as effective to use .38 wadcutters.

 

[Eddietruett]

I bought some off GB probably a year ago and loaded them up with 5.0 gr of Universal. Seated them flush just because I thought they looked really weird seated any other way. My Chronograph got stolen and the crooks took the case and my record book, but IIRC I was getting right around 1000fps out of a 3" K frame. Shot well, but nothing spectacular in the accuracy department. Was curious if they would keyhole like the old HBWC we used to load backwards. I did not get a keyhole out to 35 yards, but the accuracy fell off drastically after about 25 yards. I was never impressed with them because they would be extremely hard to reload a cylinder even with a speed loader. Did a very unscientific test with water jugs and wet newspaper and penetration and expansion was about the same a Golden Saber +P which was my carry load until I discovered the Lehigh bullets. I know one of the guys who was in on the development of the Lehigh bullets and won't go into all of the things I learned, its all on the web if you want to research it, but I'm convinced that the Lehigh Defense bullet is by far the way to go for a SD Load.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have loaded lead WC bullets and LHP "FBI" bullets as well as LSP bullets, over the years in a treck for a good SD load for a 2" to a 6" 38 special.

Just not a happy camper with what I have seen in the expansion department, though the penetration is there and even a little more than needed.

Like I mentioned I have loaded the "FBI" load as well as the 135 Gold Dot and the 125 & 110 JHP light weight bullet loads but for now I really want to see if this Federal 130 "Micro" barrel bullet is the real deal, as it
was shown on the internet.

It is hard to use lead when you have pictures like these as proof.

 

[mikld]

Are you trying to control pressure/velocity with bullet seating depth?

 

[Nevada Ed]

Are you trying to control pressure/velocity with bullet seating depth?

Federal has no loading data on this bullet or any other powder company, right now.

You can't control anything without data.

Any of us trying to load this bullet are in the dark and flying by the seat of our pants...................
until we get some numbers down on paper and a pattern starts to emerge.

We will put the puzzle together................
just that we are walking through a mine field right now with the really deep bullet seating and no powders listed right now.

Taking small steps with my J frame and larger ones with the 686 loads, right now.

 

[mikerjf]

Like Shultz, I know NOTHING... but occurs to me, could you use data from a similar (shorter) caliber that would have a similar case volume? Like 38 S&W, 38 short, or whatever it's called?

 

[lawandorder]

Has any one heard of any actual self defense use of the Federal 130 gr. HST?

 

[GeoJelly]

Because they have such a long bearing surface, I used 158-g jacketed data for mine, and seated them to the cannelure. Thanks to covid, I haven't been out to shoot anything since FEB. But, I expect to keep all of my fingers after shooting a few of these with 158-g data. Picked mine up from Spectre Supply on GB, and just picked up 500 9-mil FMJ's from them. They're one of the few non-scalpers out there now.

 

[RELODR]

I used Speer's 130 gr short barrel data

I used Speer's published 130gr gold dot short barrel loads with the bullet loaded to the cannelure and got almost published velocities from my 38-2 (850-870 RANGE). Seated deep, I got 925 fps with the max Power Pistol load and a too hot - I felt - 970 or so with the max AA-5 load. It had no pressure signs but .... I have changed from the 158 gr treasury load to the Power Pistol load for carry in the Bodyguard

 

[STORMINORMAN]

People load wadcutters all the time. I was told the cannelure was for expansion prurposes. Working up to the claimed factory Federal velocity should result in the expansion shown in the various internet video tests. The bullet measures 0.603", approximately the same as a plated Berrys 148gr HBWC. The hollow base of the Berrys definitely adds volume. The hollow on the Federal wadcutter is in the front. I don't have any regular lead wadcutters to compare it to...

P.S. If someone would please be so kind as to measure the length of a standard lead 148gr wadcutter it might shed some further light on the subject of available (& comparable) case volume...?

 

[WR Moore]

Just a note here on BE86. I've been working with it a bit and it seems to have a burn rate just a smidgen faster than Unique. At least in .357 magnum, 9 mm & .45 ACP. .38 Spl loads seem a wee bit different, but that might be the cases I'm using in testing. Or the 125 gr Sierra JHP I've been working with.

 

[Nevada Ed]

There is a lot of difference from a 135gr Gold Dot seat at a OAL of 1.45"where a full load of Unique powder flops around in the case.....

than this deep seated 130gr HST that has the Unique powder being a COMPRESSED LOAD !!

You don't even want to know how much Bullseye will fit into this case that
might come out to a 158% loading !!

This is a brand New Ball Game for all that enter the stadium.

Cuda, wuda, suda, ain't going to work with this bullet !!

on BE-86 powder;
I don't know if it is faster than Unique powder but.............
in a 9mm case with a big 147gr bullet you can get a lot more of this smaller grained powder into the case and come up with a LOT MORE fps.

In the .357 it is kin to w231 with the 125gr JHP and accurate.

Stay safe.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I have actually made up loads in 357Magnum seated flush 1150fps chronographed and shot into ballistics gel. Even at that speed they still held together but a bit of over penetration at 19-23inches for 5shots.

Hay;
that load works out PERFECT.........................
for the New York winter, heavy coat SD load.

Was that a standard 4" revolver ?

Nice to know it will reach 23" for the "Big Boys", since I wear a 42".

 

[Dieseltech56]

Good info there! Thanks Mr Revolverguy