14-1 shooter

[tlawler]

I found this 14-1 shooter grade locally and would like to get an opinion on it. If it is indeed a 1961 gun, that’s got me excited because it’s a birthyear gun for me. His description of “some bluing missing” seems to understate the condition. And it doesn’t have the correct stocks and probably no box or tools, etc. I know it’s a fairly scarce gun, probably not “rare”, but he is asking $675 for it, I’m thinking more like $500 tops. I have not contacted him yet to learn any more about it.

Here is his write-up on it:
Smith and Wesson model 14-1 made in 1961. They only made 14-1 for 18 months and they are the rarest model 14’s made. I am not a revolver guy so I had a gunsmith go over it. It has some bluing removed at the end of the barrel as seen pics. I did take it apart and it is clean enough to eat off of. It looks like it has been well taken care of. I am selling this as is and the gunsmith said it is worth 700-800 bucks. I want 675 for it. Will make a great addition to someone’s collection.
The pictures he posted:

 

[Engine49guy]

Might pay a small premium for a shooter condition 14-1 if I collected 14's and needed one to fill a hole until a clean example could be procured,

On the other hand a shooter grade gun doesnt warrant a premium for being a "Collectible " revision and $500 tops sounds more realistic.

BTW the non diamond Magna Stocks are not correct era,

 

[ggibson511960]

On Gunbroker

Regardless of what it's worth, $675 is what he wants. Valuations are all over the map these days, but $675 seems a tad high for a shooter grade. Collectability for a 14-1 seems dubious in its condition. Is Blue Book of Gun Values worthless these days?

 

[Eddietruett]

I recently bought a 14-4 with 6" pinned barrel. Finish is probably 98%. Has had an action job. Target Hammer and there was a custom trigger installed with action job. Non original grips. Condition is almost too nice to shoot, but I said almost. It is a real tack driver. I gave $600 at a local gun show.

 

[ggibson511960]

Good Number!

Your first post had the right price. $500 is a fair number for this mid-condition piece with no box or tools. It's not going to get away from you anytime soon at $675. There are too many in better shape for collectors, and better prices for shooters.

 

[Bosquebass]

This decent 14-3 shooter just closed on gunbroker for $510 and I thought it was maybe $50 high. FWIW

 

[JP@AK]

tlawler

I agree with the other guys here. $675 is too much to pay for that gun. The -1 is less common than other Model 14s, that part is true. But it isn't rare and that one is a long way from being a collectible item.

To put it in perspective, the -1 in my collection came to me three years ago. It is ANIB with all the goodies and I paid $100 less than he is asking for this one. The "scarcity" of the -1 in no way overcomes the condition of this example and its lack of box, papers and tools, not to mention the later stocks that are on it.

My advice is walk away if he won't come down quite a bit. $500 might be okay, but personally I wouldn't even give that much for it. There are too many others out there to choose from.

 

[Targets Guy]

I paid $459 for my Model 14-3 on gunbroker last July. It shipped 9/69.

 

[MikeLeitner]

If that's a 14-1, shouldn't it have a lazy ampersand in the address line?

 

[tlawler]

If that's a 14-1, shouldn't it have a lazy ampersand in the address line?

Good point. I saw it on the barrel, but hadn’t paid attention to it in the address line. It should be in both places, correct? And it’s too early of a model to be transitional.

 

[MikeLeitner]

I'm not knowledgeable enough to say for sure, but I'd want to see the serial number and yoke stamp.
Regardless, that's too much money.

 

[JP@AK]

If that's a 14-1, shouldn't it have a lazy ampersand in the address line?

Good point. I saw it on the barrel, but hadn’t paid attention to it in the address line. It should be in both places, correct?

I would not put many eggs in the basket of dating guns based on the shape of the ampersand. The use of different roll stamps is just too inconsistent to provide a satisfactory basis for such judgments.

I just pulled three K-38 Masterpiece revolvers from the safe to take a look. Here is what I found:
1. A four screw from 1956 has the lazy ampersand both on the barrel and in the address. This is what we would expect.
2. A Model 14-1 from 1962. Lazy ampersand in the address; straight up ampersand on the barrel.
3. A Model 14-2 from 1967. Lazy ampersand on both the barrel and the address.

Advice: Don't over-think this stuff.

And it’s too early of a model to be transitional.

What do you even mean by this? There is nothing "transitional" about any of the Model 14s that I know of. The only thing that comes close to that definition would be when the barrel pins were eliminated in c. 1982. Some later guns still have the pin. I guess you can call that "transitional." But most of us here probably wouldn't.

I'm not picking a fight here. I just want to know what you mean by the term, please.

 

[tlawler]

What do you even mean by this? There is nothing "transitional" about any of the Model 14s that I know of. The only thing that comes close to that definition would be when the barrel pins were eliminated in c. 1982. Some later guns still have the pin. I guess you can call that "transitional." But most of us here probably wouldn't.

I know you’re not picking a fight and your information is very welcome. By transitional, I was postulating that maybe there were some revolvers that were put together with a lazy and straight ampersand when they were transitioning from one to another. I’m still in the neophyte column when it comes to collecting, so any and all information is helpful.

I am surprised that your ‘67 has both lazy while the ‘62 is mixed. I had assumed that the lazy was exclusively older. I have a first year model 57 with lazy on the frame and straight on the barrel and assumed the barrel was replaced at some point. So that may not be the case?

 

[JP@AK]

I am surprised that your ‘67 has both lazy while the ‘62 is mixed.

I had assumed that the lazy was exclusively older.

Here is what I think: We know that S&W almost never threw parts away. I suspect they were equally diligent in using tools. Probably roll stamps were kept in use until they were no longer functional. Some would wear out sooner than others. So whichever one was handy to the finish guy when a gun part came up for stamping got used. And a different guy might mark the frame than the guy who stamped the barrel. That could be why there is quite a bit of overlap in the appearance of different ampersands on different parts in the later years.

I have a first year model 57 with lazy on the frame and straight on the barrel and assumed the barrel was replaced at some point. So that may not be the case?

I seriously doubt that is the case. There is plenty of evidence that later parts got older stamps. (See my theory above.)

I just gave you a snippet of evidence from my own safe. I'm sure I could come up with more examples if I wanted to take the time to go through all the dozens of revolvers in the safe (which I don't).

Cheers!

 

[tlawler]

It looks like someone was willing to pay his price. He ended his auction and deleted Local listing.

 

[Semper Fi Charters]

It was my gun and I found out the cylinder was bad so I ordered a new one and will not sell something that is not perfect. It was indeed a 1961 14-1. At the time it was the only -1 for sale on any web site other than a NIB for 1300. Yes you can find -3’s and -‘4’s all day long but only a few -1’s ever come up.

 

[ditto1958]

I am “addicted” to watching Model 14’s on GB. Nice ones, even shooter grade, 14 no dash to 14-4, seem to command pretty good prices. I suspect a lotta prospective buyers know about the reputation they have for accuracy.

Since a 14-1 is hard to come by, I’d expect to pay more than $700 for a nice one. Minty, with box, tools and paperwork? $1,300+?

 

[tlawler]

Welcome

It was my gun and I found out the cylinder was bad so I ordered a new one and will not sell something that is not perfect. It was indeed a 1961 14-1. At the time it was the only -1 for sale on any web site other than a NIB for 1300. Yes you can find -3’s and -‘4’s all day long but only a few -1’s ever come up.

Welcome to the forum, Marine!

 

[Bodie57]

I just bought this one on GB. Under $525 shipped.

 

[Semper Fi Charters]

That’s a nice one!