148 DEWC vs 148 HBWC reloading BE86

[ontargetagain]

I bought some BE86 a few weeks ago and have been pleased with how it shoots for me. I see in the Alliant reloading info there only data for a Hollow Base WC bullet at 148gr. I shoot Double Ended WC's.

How would you compensate for the difference between the two bullet designs or would you pass on using the powder. Obviously the HBWC will have more volume between the bullet and the powder than the DEWC I believe unless there is a distinct difference in bullet length, I don't have access to any HBWC to compare.

Any thoughts, I have both Berry's and Xtreme DEWC's.
Thanks
Karl

UPDATE: Make sure to read below and find my UPDATE post on this topic please. There is no recipe for Alliant BE86 with any 148gr bullet!

 

[TAROMAN]

Many times, both wadcutter types are listed with the same load.
In your case, there may be a slight velocity increase with the DEWC, which is not a problem as it can easily handle higher velocities than a HBWC.
I would start with the HBWC data and work up from there if more velocity is desired. Most (all?) HBWC data published are for lead bullets.
As these plated bullets need more "oomph" than lead, I would start at the upper end of the posted data. You don't want to stick one in the barrel.

My $0.03 worth, YMMV.

 

[Trooperdan]

The HBWC is longer than the DEWC which reduces the powder space but the hollow base somewhat negates that. The Lyman Cast Bullet 4th edition shows a DEWC (SAECO # 052) 2.9 Bullseye (not BE86) at 812 fps and I "think" the classic HBWC load of 2.7 Bullseye is very near that same velocity. I'd load a few DEWC using the HBWC data with the expectation I might have to up the load a couple of tenths.

Edited for clarity.

 

[4barrel]

In a wheel gun It wont matter. I have some 38 special autos. With a fast powder like Bullseye--231--Tightgroup--700x--Clays--Red dot--When using anything other than a hbwc I have to add two tenths more powder to make the slide function the same with lead bullets. A plated bullet will have more drag. In my guns a bnwc is more accurate than a dewc by a very small amount. In a 148 grain bullet a hbwc is longer.

 

[ontargetagain]

Many times, both wadcutter types are listed with the same load.
In your case, there may be a slight velocity increase with the DEWC, which is not a problem as it can easily handle higher velocities than a HBWC.
I would start with the HBWC data and work up from there if more velocity is desired. Most (all?) HBWC data published are for lead bullets.
As these plated bullets need more "oomph" than lead, I would start at the upper end of the posted data. You don't want to stick one in the barrel.

My $0.03 worth, YMMV.

I would say that exceeds the value of the stated $.03 worth
Yes these are plated bullets but I do have some lead too.
I'll give it a go with your input suggestions most likely.
Thanks, I shoot indoors so I primarily load plated.
Karl

 

[ontargetagain]

The HBWC is longer than the DEWC which reduces the powder space but the hollow base somewhat negates that. The Lyman Cast Bullet 4th edition shows 2.9 Bullseye (not BE86) at 812 fps and I "think" the classic HBWC load of 2.7 Bullseye is very near that same velocity. I'd load a few DEWC using the HBWC data with the expectation I might have to up the load a couple of tenths.

I appreciate the input and it makes sense. Thanks for the reply and suggestion on the bump up on a few tenths.
Karl

 

[ontargetagain]

In a wheel gun It wont matter. I have some 38 special autos. With a fast powder like Bullseye--231--Tightgroup--700x--Clays--When using anything other than a hbwc I have to add two tenths more powder to make the slide function the same with lead bullets. A plated bullet will have more drag. In my guns a bnwc is more accurate than a dewc by a very small amount. In a 148 grain bullet a hbwc is longer.

Button nose WC? Will have to look into those, always something new, appreciate your help, thanks.
Karl

 

[Forrest r]

A picture of a wc (left) and 2 different wbwc's (center & right), they all weigh 148gr. I use the same target load data for all 3 bullets.

 

[4barrel]

Button nose WC? Will have to look into those, always something new, appreciate your help, thanks.
Karl

They have a crimp groove & can be pushed 1100 fps or so in a wheel gun or turn around & load flush like a hbwc. They are flat base without a bevel. These are in the Lyman book 38 & .357 But not with BE86. BE86 is a medium burning flake powder between Power Pistol & Unique. American Select--Power Pistol & Unique are flake powders & side by side look the same. If you use BE86 with a hbwc it looks like 3.4 would be a start point. I use 3.7 Unique in my 38 special auto with a hbwc. 2.8 of Bullseye--3.2 of American Select-- & 3.7 Unique ejects the brass about 2 feet out. When working up a load I wont the brass to eject the same place as a known target load. I will try BE86--I just havent seen any. This is one of my wad cutter test guns. This is a very good wad cutter chart I have posted before for the new reloaders that havent seen it. Saves a lot of guess work.

 

[ontargetagain]

UPDATE
I have rechecked myself on this one and I am wrong, there is NO reload data from Alliant using BE86 on any 148gr bullet at all!
The HBWC info I saw for 148gr only showed Bullseye and Red Dot. I guess I was wanting it to include BE86 LOL but it does NOT.

Thanks for the input, I got off on the wrong trail on this one
Karl

 

[bwxmas]

Use it.
3.1 grains will get you there.

 

[franzas]

I would just pick a number (say, 3 grains) then work up or down until you get your desired velocity. No need to worry about pressure with PPC velocities.

my 2 cents

 

[Nevada Ed]

Depends on the weapon, some times.

I have one that likes just a soft 148gr HBwc, while others like
the harder BBWC design that I get.
I also had to play with the OAL on both styles to get things just right.
One model BB actually had two different lengths on the two can's on the bullet, due to the molds cuttings.

My .357 likes the BBwc in a 38 case with the front lead exposed and flush in the longer .357 case.
One never knows.

I have yet to fire any WC plated or Berry type bullets, as I have a lot of 148 and 158 lead WC and RN to burn up.
However I do have twenty two .358 dia. coated I am testing in a 38 case, that did not work out in my 9mm.

Later.

 

[4barrel]

Depends on the weapon, some times.

I have one that likes just a soft 148gr HBwc, while others like
the harder BBWC design that I get.
I also had to play with the OAL on both styles to get things just right.
One model BB actually had two different lengths on the two can's on the bullet, due to the molds cuttings.

My .357 likes the BBwc in a 38 case with the front lead exposed and flush in the longer .357 case.
One never knows.

I have yet to fire any WC plated or Berry type bullets, as I have a lot of 148 and 158 lead WC and RN to burn up.
However I do have twenty two .358 dia. coated I am testing in a 38 case, that did not work out in my 9mm.

Later.

I would like to know how your tests come out on the plated bullets as to the ones you cast.