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vmaxriders

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I have been OCing for ten years or so. A few run ins with LEO but always it was civil. But while traveling a rural road I was stopped for speeding. 5 mph over. No biggie. I was ordered over PA to exit the vehicle. I complied. No biggie. Upon reaching the rear of my vehicle, as I was told to do, the officer was exiting his vehicle. At this point things started to get scary. As he approached me( before I could tell him I that was armed)his I eyes dropped to my sidearm. I saw it all in my head before it happened. He dropped his clipboard and drew on me. For a split second I saw this situation going very badly. I train with my sidearm religously. 500 rounds a month. Not just at the range either. I train on drawing and firing on multiple targets. I have a great respect for our LEOs and military, but I feel his actions were a little reckless. Him being a LEO I hesitated, but the truth is I was in fear of my life. Having a weapon pointed at you is a serious position to be in. I'm not sure what I wanted to get out of this but I had to talk about it.

























reaching
 
I would never exit a vehicle on a pull over with a gun strapped openly to my hip. I would have put my hands out the window and informed him of it if I could not remove it without arousing suspicion. That said, can you explain the 3 asterisks as your subject line, the extra spacing...and the word "reaching"?
 
sipowicz said:
I would never exit a vehicle on a pull over with a gun strapped openly to my hip. I would have put my hands out the window and informed him of it if I could not remove it without arousing suspicion. That said, can you explain the 3 asterisks as your subject line, the extra spacing...and the word "reaching"?
Click to expand...

You know, I almost posted the exact same thing a couple of hours ago.
At least those are the same thoughts that crossed my mind, in their entirety............
 
What was the outcome? What state was this in? Rural, small town or big city?

In this day and age, and in most areas, I can easily see this type of reaction happening from many in law enforcement. There are still some locales and officers where the sight of a holstered handgun won't raise this much of a reaction, fewer and fewer as we go along though. The days of a cop being use to seeing holstered guns is about over, and it seems that more and more cops are being shot at and therefore most cops aren't willing to wait too long to determine what the other guy's intent is before they get the upper hand.

Being an ol' country boy myself, I'm not bothered much by the sight of a holstered handgun, but many of my (usually younger) partners would've reacted much like the officer you ran into did, and just about any officer from the more populace (and higher crime) areas will likely react as such also.

Sad as this change in culture seems to me (I still tend to generally trust a holstered gun on the hips of my county nieghbors), Sip's advice is sound in any area.

Peace,
 
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I meant sign off "reaching out" as for the state it's La. and in a rural northern comunity. I sort of understand his reaction but simply placing his hand on his weapon at the ready would have stopped me in my tracks. As for my firearm. I have worn it for so long that I rarely think of it as being there. It's as customary to me as my cell phone.
 
Maybe I should practice CCW. Part of me preferes to conceal and part of me wants to keep it out there to ward off anyone who considers me a target before it gets that far. I don't blame the LEO. It's wasn't a good situation for either of us. I just wanted to talk about it.
 
I just wanted to talk about it.
Click to expand...

Sounds good to me.

CCW (with license/permit where required) does solve a lot of problems. As you probably could tell from my above post, open carry doesn't bother me much (personally) but I do understand where it makes many nervous.

At your service,

P.S. I'm a little surprised that it was in a rural area of La, but the times they are a'changing.
 
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vmaxriders said:
Maybe I should practice CCW. Part of me preferes to conceal and part of me wants to keep it out there to ward off anyone who considers me a target before it gets that far. I don't blame the LEO. It's wasn't a good situation for either of us. I just wanted to talk about it.
Click to expand...

I figure that OC might ward off a few people, but it also tips your hand and lets a determined thug know exactly what you have and where. We've got thugs around here that have shot at uniformed LEO. If they are willing to confront and shoot at them, they sure won't mind shooting at us. I believe that staying concealed gives me the tiny advantage of having a surprise for them. Nothing is guaranteed, but if they make a mistake and blink, I have an option to go to that they won't know about until it's too late.
 
vmaxriders said:
I sort of understand his reaction but simply placing his hand on his weapon at the ready would have stopped me in my tracks.
Click to expand...

Obviously we weren't there and don't know the entire story from both perspectives, but I will comment on the statement above. As a LEO we don't play fair, we play to win and we use every legal option to our advantage. Again, not knowing the entire situation, but I'm not going to try and outdraw someone with a holstered weapon, this ain't the old west. If the officer did not feel like the situation was under control I don't blame him one bit for beating you to the draw. If everything turned out cool afterwards an apology may have been in order.
 
So open carry is legal in LA? Since you are posting, you didn't get killed. So what happened? Truthfully, if I were a cop in the same situation I'd have drawn down on you too. You carry a gun you got to have some common sense - that includes knowing that a LEO does not like surprises.

Out
West
 
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Try as I might, I simply cannot forego commenting...

First, a "5 over" speeding violation and the LEO ordered you out of you car? :confused: Hmmmm, methinks something more was involved in that stop.

As I and many others have stated...repeatedly...LEO's do not like surprises. Surprises involving guns are particularly unlikeable.

If you were ordered from your car and came out with a gun you deserve to have a gun pointed at you. PERIOD! I personally have drawn down on folks who had a gun(s) near them let alone a gun on their hip.

Though this begs many answers I shall refrain from further...perhaps.

Be safe.
 
I wouldn't have got out of the car if I was OCing to begin with. It prevents things like this from happening.
 
LEO's are human I've meet / run into, and know some very smart ones and some very crazy ones :eek:. I'll give everyone a few examples: In my local news last week our previous Police Chef was released from prison to a halfway house (corruption charges a few years ago). Sunday night a Federal officer was arrested for assaulting his wife in the face with his service weapon. Then this ongoing one is for a local LEO that was arrested last year for falsifying reports to aid in several auto thefts, AND get this his attorney was the assistant DA a few years ago, but had to resign when he assaulted his ex-wife ---of course the charges were dropped and I'm sure he's a great attorney ;). All I could say is I personally know allot of people and I have a hard time knowing what they do for a living now. :cool:
 
Many years ago I had a aquaintance that got a call to go to a country bar, seems a guy wore a gun in the bar and a concerned patron called the sheriffs. The deputy pulled into the lot and it had been raining and was muddy. The deputy was on his knee or knees in a shooting crouch and the guy came out. He complied and threw the belt and holster in his car and as the deputy was starting to stand up he slipped in the mud, his gun went off hitting the guy in the neck and killing him!
I never was a leo but was a guard and carried in uniform for over 35 years on the jobs. Now I live where I can carry OC, have a ccw, yet I seldom oc. Legal or not, you are bound to excite some non gun people. I explore the boonies about twice a week on a quad. Its legal to oc and many of my friends do when we ride. I am far more experianced than them and yet I usualy dont. A group of us went for a ride a couple weeks ago and I noticed a recently retired deputy from california and myself werent packing openly. I suppose he had one in his luggage or pocket as I did. The other guys had them in the open. Not trying to start something here, but in my observations it seems to me that most of us who had to pack in our careers are more descreet about packing than others that never packed on a job. I do sometimes oc in the far boonies mostly when I ride by myself, but tend to carry just in my handy luggage or cc when rideing in a group or on well traveled trails. If you oc carry out of uniform you are going excite a lot of people. Thats just a fact of life.
 
feralmerril said:
If you oc carry out of uniform you are going excite a lot of people. Thats just a fact of life.
Click to expand...
+1!

Unfortunately there are plenty of people who OC "because they can." Here in PA it is legal. Do I? Nope.. only in the woods. I once saw a guy at Gander Mountain OCing with his gun on his right hip and two extra mags on his left. I didn't care about that. My problem was with his attitude. Just by watching him you could tell he thought he was something special because he had a gun. I saw a few people take notice and they looked uncomfortable. I heard one customer mention it to an employee (who informed her it was legal).
 
Since the incident I don't ride with my weapon on my hip. It's on top of my center console in plain view. I cc more now then I oc. I know I have the right to oc but that day could have gone much different than it did. Atleast when I cc it gives me the moment I need to inform am officer in such a way as not to seem a threat. I still believe in the right to carry open or otherwise but I feel the responsible thing is to conceal when the occasion calls for it.
 
Son,
Your lucky...I'm glad it work out all the way around.




Su Amigo,
Dave

FWIW, I saw a fellow raid team member shoot 'himself in his own foot' from poor firearms handling.
 
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The reaction of the officer might be understandable, but if all is as told, and the OP was not acting in an aggressive or threatening manner, AND OPEN CARRY IS LEGAL IN THAT JURISDICTION, then the LEO was dead wrong. I wonder if the officer even realized that Open Carry was legal? It doesn't sound like it. If OC is legal, and that officer is going to draw down on everyone he encounters legally carrying, then some folks are in for some exciting times.

I recently asked the Sheriff of our rural community if his deputies were aware of the laws in Georgia. He assured me they are, and I believe him. He is very professional, and demands professionalism from his deputies. This isn't the case all over Georgia, though. We have some fairly liberal laws regarding carry, open as well as concealed. There are some horror stories from some particular jurisdictions.

I am not a proponent of OC. The only time I do so is when I'm working on my own property, on a tractor, or tooling around in my golf cart. When I go out on the town, my Model 60 is in my right front pocket.
 
keith44spl said:
FWIW, I saw a fellow raid team member shoot 'himself in his own foot' from poor firearms handling.
Click to expand...

Years back, in one of the videos from the raid on the Waco compound, there was a sequence showing a Federal Officer shooting himself in his leg as he attempted to holster his weapon in one of the "tactical" thigh type holsters. I think he was trying to get on the roof of one of the buildings, and needed to holster his weapon to use both hands. Glops will do that to you.;)
 
redlevel said:
The reaction of the officer might be understandable, but if all is as told, and the OP was not acting in an aggressive or threatening manner, AND OPEN CARRY IS LEGAL IN THAT JURISDICTION, then the LEO was dead wrong. I wonder if the officer even realized that Open Carry was legal? It doesn't sound like it. If OC is legal, and that officer is going to draw down on everyone he encounters legally carrying, then some folks are in for some exciting times.

I recently asked the Sheriff of our rural community if his deputies were aware of the laws in Georgia. He assured me they are, and I believe him. He is very professional, and demands professionalism from his deputies. This isn't the case all over Georgia, though. We have some fairly liberal laws regarding carry, open as well as concealed. There are some horror stories from some particular jurisdictions.

I am not a proponent of OC. The only time I do so is when I'm working on my own property, on a tractor, or tooling around in my golf cart. When I go out on the town, my Model 60 is in my right front pocket.
Click to expand...


Redlevel,

I think your right, right there.

I have not worked traffic in quite sometime...But don't ever remember ordering anyone outta their vehicle on a traffic violation to meet me halfway.???

Within that jurisdiction and like jurisdictions that uphold the open carry of a firearm(s) by statute, that citizens shall has the same legal right(s) to carry a sidearm, as I would as a lawman.

As an law enforcement officer, I do not carry a firearm to enforce the laws, but only carry firearms to defend myself while enforcing the statutes within my sworn duties of said jurisdiction(s).

If it had been a felony stop...Well let's just say that's a horse of a different color, shall we.

My first priority is to serve the citizentry, not violate anyone(s) right(s)

In closing I'll say this...You cannot train 'em up with common sense.


And one more thing...The team member that shot himself in the foot, did it with a MAK90 7.62X39...This cat claimed to be ex-SF operator and all that...I thought it was just wreckless gun handling and lack of respect for a weapon(s) in general.

That's all for now...Anyway

Su Amigo,
Dave
 
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I'm not disagreeing with anything said here, but the OP seems to have come up with a good solution. Whatever the law says, there's a difference between a LEO seeing someone from a mile away calmly walking down Main Street with a gun on his hip and a LEO who sees a gun during a traffic stop. It's not about right and wrong, it's just reality and it's better to be safe than sorry. I like debating over CCW and self-defense as much as the next guy, but I don't like the odds where a LEO's perception of his/her own safety is concerned.
 
This gets involved. Think about game wardens. Virtualy everyone they deal with is armed. Do they throw down on you? I also was wondering why a leo would get on the PA to pull you over on a country road. Unheard of for 5 mph over! I belive he may have observed the OP OCing earlier, followed and looked for a PC. There is or at least used to be clauses in the law in certain areas that had OC, about officers being able to ascertain about "keeping sureitys of the peace".
Personaly, I have mixed feelings about open carry. On one hand I belive that if no one exercised their right, soon it wouldnt exist. Why would we want the right if not one person used it? Now on the other hand I dont want to be the only person to carry as I feel I would look like a paranoid half baked loonitic packing downtown or anyplace else but in the boonies! But then again I now live in a relatively crime free area that has nothing but boonies any direction I go, except a freeway runs through it. (Got that from the movie, "A river runs through it".)
From what I read there are a lot of citys that I wouldnt want to visit without at least a snub in my pocket. I live in what was once the "Old wild west". Funny. Now days its the safest place and its the citys back east thats now "The new wild east"
One of the stupidest things I ever saw on the OC subject was a number of years ago back in lancaster california I seen this dude driveing through town with his rig, (gun, belt & holster) hanging on the aeiral of his car! I got a look at his face and it was a worried exspression! This guy sure must of wanted to prove he was trying to abide by every law and wanted to abide by possible laws he wasnt sure of! I belive it would be a lot less trouble just to put the rig on the seat alongside yourself with a jacket or newspaper over it! Who do you think would get stopped first driveing cross country?
 
As for the OP situation, I am wondering how he would have best been able to proceed in the situation, when asked to get out of the car over PA. Guessing withdrawing weapon to lay on seat would have gotten a lot worse reaction from Officer. My thought would be to put down the window and put hands on door, and try to respond to Officer, but would this be seen as non-compliant?

When I was working at a local Hardware Store, I had just 1 guy, in two years, come in OC'ing and I was more interested in the weapon then the fact that he was, but I couldn't tell by the few customer's that saw that they were suprised a little. I noticed it was a S&W 3913 and had grey grips and appeared to be all grey, while helping him get a few items. So I asked him if it was "Lady Smith" which got the response "no it's a 3913......."
 
Look. I have traveled as much, or more, than the average person. My last 50 years have been in the west. Populated california and now utah. Before that I worked wisconsin, texas, louisianna, west virginnia, northern mighigan, oregon, wyoming, and maybe more. To read these gun sites, not just here, but another six or so, I am convinced I dont get out much at all! From my impressions from reading, it seems I should have seen non leo people packing wherever I go daily! Well, I havent and dont! Yes in the boonies on the trails rideing quad or horses one sees people packing. However I just all but never, ever see it! I would estimate seeing guys open carry with no badge in sight wearing civilian cloths, in POPULATED areas, not counting the boonies, maybe only a half dozzen times in my life!! Even then, I rather assume they might have been leo. I am not talking centenials, praides, or whatever, just people in towns, on the streets or in cafes etc.
Either I am sheltered and dont get out much, and I dont think that is the case, or there is a whole lot of BSing going on these sites! Come on! Be truthfull! Tell me what you see and in what area. Especially what area do you see people and how many, openly packing a sidearm in your area that you suspect are not leo?
 
sipowicz said:
I would never exit a vehicle on a pull over with a gun strapped openly to my hip. I would have put my hands out the window and informed him of it if I could not remove it without arousing suspicion. That said, can you explain the 3 asterisks as your subject line, the extra spacing...and the word "reaching"?
Click to expand...

Great advice,
In Ohio you have to tell the LEO --BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING!!!-.
Hands where they can see them and your first words should be ,," GET BACK COPPER I GOT A GUN!"
No NO that's wrong.

Your first words should be ="I have a permit to carry"
The few times I been pulled over for whatever,,,, After finding out I had a permit to carry , I was told to slow down with only a warning.
Must figure if I can get a permit I'm not such a bad guy!
 
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