17 vs. 18: what's the difference?

[MT2AShooter]

I learned to shoot with my dad's 4" 3T model 18-2. I would like to find one like it, but the model 17's appear similar. SCSW says both are based on a square butt target K frame. They were also produced during similar time frames. I'm looking for a good quality shooter that replicates the feel of my dad's gun. Although my preference is for a model 18 because of my family history, I'm wondering why a model 17 wouldn't fill the same role, at least until I find a model 18 that is like the one I grew up with. Assuming 4" barrel lengths for both, what are the important differences between the two?

 

[nksmfamjp]

This isn't always true, but 18's are typically setup as a combat revolver with a std grips, 4" barrel, narrow hammer and narrow trigger.

Model 17's are typically 6" barrel, often with wide trigger, wide hammer and target stocks.

The thing is, it seems like every variation of parts exists, so only barrel length seems to be the difference.

 

[JP@AK]

The only difference between the Model 17 and Model 18 was barrel length and sight configuration.

Model 17 K-22 Masterpiece - 6" barrel, Patridge front sight

Model 18 .22 Combat Masterpiece - 4" barrel, Baughman ramp front sight.

Either model could be had with any combination of TT, TH and Target stocks or standard hammer and trigger and Magna stocks.

 

[kscharlie]

Model 17 has a 6" barrel with patridge front sight. Model 18 has 4" barrel with Baughman front sight. Either could be ordered with any combination of standard or target hammer and trigger. Either could be had with magna or target stocks. Otherwise, they are the same gun.

Edit: Jack beat me by 1 minute.....

 

[k22fan]

From the .22 Combat Masterpiece's or Pre-18's introduction through the Model 18's discontinuance in 1985 there were no 4" barrel Pre-17s or 4" Model 17s. While .22 Masterpieces or Pre-17s started out with skinny barrels and skinny barrel ribs after only a few years they were only offered with heavier barrels that had a small straight taper. The 4" skinny barrel and rib were an intrinsic feature of Combat Masterpieces. Wide Target Triggers and Target hammers can be found on both models. Until 1985 Model 17s were offered with a choice of 6" or 8 3/3" barrels. In 1985 heavier barreled 4" Model 17s replaced Model 18s. Later in the 1980s Model 17s in all 3 barrel lengths changed to full lug barrels with no taper.

Model 18s weigh 36 ounces. 4" Model 17s weigh more and lost the Combat Masterpiece's classy appearance. 6" and 8 3/3" Model 17s are not as comfortable in a belt holster but their weight and longer sight radius makes it a little easier for most people to get fine accuracy.

 

[00Buck2]

The 17 is a 6” and the 18 is a 4” that is the only difference.

I never really found the need for a model 18 other than I like the looks of a 4” barrels. I recently purchased an 18-3 and it is my new favorite. It is just as accurate as my 17.

Both my 17 have target stocks, standard hammer and standard trigger. My 18 has magna stocks, target trigger and target hammer.

I think the 17 and 18 are equal in accuracy even though there is a 2” barrel length difference. I just like the look of the 4” barrel more, no other reason.

 

[Targets Guy]

There are 4" barrel K-22s. Never say never with a S&W.

 

[k22fan]

There are 4" barrel K-22s. Never say never with a S&W.

Your need to add "Never say never with a S&W" proves the rule.

 

[Tom K]

This isn't always true, but 18's are typically setup as a combat revolver with a std grips, 4" barrel, narrow hammer and narrow trigger.

Model 17's are typically 6" barrel, often with wide trigger, wide hammer and target stocks.

The thing is, it seems like every variation of parts exists, so only barrel length seems to be the difference.

Nope. At least not originally. A picture, as they say, is worth... some number of words, I forget exactly how many. (Click on the pics for a larger version.)

Shown here is a Model 17-3 Masterpiece and an 18-3 Combat Masterpiece. The Model 17 has a Patridge front sight, target hammer, trigger and grips but that wasn't necessarily always true. Plenty of Model 17s had a regular hammer, trigger and magna grips. By and large, besides the barrel length the biggest difference is the barrel profile. The Model 18 had a barrel with a slimmer profile and a narrow rib. In addition the frame was scalloped at the top corners to better blend into the narrow rib, as opposed to the Model 17 frame being full width to mate with the wide rib.


The same difference exists between the .38 Special Model 14 Masterpiece and Model 15 Combat Masterpiece. At least until you get into the higher dash numbers - I believe that the Model 15-5 and up has the same heavy barrel and frame profile as the Model 14. At that point barrel length (and front sight configuration) did become the real primary difference.

 

[k22fan]

[...] The same difference exists between the .38 Special Model 14 Masterpiece and Model 15 Combat Masterpiece. At least until you get into the higher dash numbers - I believe that the Model 15-5 and up has the same heavy barrel and frame profile as the Model 14. At that point barrel length (and front sight configuration) did become the real primary difference.

Close, but no banana. The thin 4" Combat Masterpiece barrel was discontinued and the target or heavier choice became a full lug barrel with no taper and wider rib leaving .38s with the old Model 14 barrels the lighter offering. The name Model 15 continued to be used for the lighter offering and Model 14 for the heavier. What had been the Model 14 was renamed Model 15 and the name Model 14 was used for full lug barreled .38s. The first time I handled an 8 3/8" Model 15 I thought it had been miss-stamped. Nope. It was the renamed Model 14. After the model number change both 14s and 15s were made in all 3 barrel lengths.

Eventually the skinny 4" Combat Masterpiece barrel reappeared in the modern Classic line.

 

[SFIDEC]

Couple pictures to show Model 17-6 Heavy Barrel and 17-6 Full Lug. There were also 17-5 Heavy Barrels produced.

 

[Tom K]

Close, but no banana. The thin 4" Combat Masterpiece barrel was discontinued and the target or heavier choice became a full lug barrel with no taper and wider rib leaving .38s with the old Model 14 barrels the lighter offering. The name Model 15 continued to be used for the lighter offering and Model 14 for the heavier. What had been the Model 14 was renamed Model 15 and the name Model 14 was used for full lug barreled .38s. The first time I handled an 8 3/8" Model 15 I thought it had been miss-stamped. Nope. It was the renamed Model 14. After the model number change both 14s and 15s were made in all 3 barrel lengths.

Eventually the skinny 4" Combat Masterpiece barrel reappeared in the modern Classic line.

I see what you're saying now. This is a Model 15-6, with a 6" untapered barrel and Patridge front sight. Before the rejiggering of model numbers it would have been a Model 14.

This is a Model 14-5 with the full underlug.

And this is a Model 14-6 with a 4" full underlug barrel.

The last couple of pictures were lifted from this excellent and informative posting: Informal Pictorial Essay - K-38 Masterpiece (and Model 14) variations


I believe there has been similar rejiggering of K22 model numbers. That said, for older guns the Model 18 will have a slender 4" barrel, and a Model 17 will (usually) have a 6" or 8-3/8" untapered barrel.

 

[UncleEd]

Always thought Smith ruined everything
regarding the Models 15/18 when the
non tapered barrels became standard.


No "rejiggering" for me!

 

[k22fan]

An older local gentleman who split his career between gunsmithing and working for manufacturers as a machinest opined that the original Combat Masterpiece barrel shape was discontinued because that shape is more expensive to make.

Splitting hairs, on this forum the Model 17 and 14 barrels used from the mid-1950s into the 1980s are usually called untapered. Actually both their barrels and barrel ribs have a straight taper.

I'm going to split the hairs a little finer, not to be critical, but because I suspect you enjoy it.

[...] I believe there has been similar rejiggering of K22 model numbers. [...]

As SFIDEC's pictures show, there was not a similar "rejiggering of K22 model numbers." Unlike the name Model 15, the name Model 18 was not used again until skinny barrels returned in the modern Classic line.

 

[PALADIN85020]

This picture should illustrate the differences for you. Two 17s on top, 18 at the bottom. Note that the 18 has the Baughman sloped front sight and a tapered barrel. It's my favorite .22 revolver to shoot, as it's a good practice stand-in for the popular 15s, 67s, 19s and 66s with 4" barrels. The 17s are superb target revolvers.

John

 

[Ackley1952]

If condition is equal the main difference is $100 dollars with the 18
on top

 

[SFIDEC]

I learned to shoot with my dad's 4" 3T model 18-2. I would like to find one like it, but the model 17's appear similar. SCSW says both are based on a square butt target K frame. They were also produced during similar time frames. I'm looking for a good quality shooter that replicates the feel of my dad's gun. Although my preference is for a model 18 because of my family history, I'm wondering why a model 17 wouldn't fill the same role, at least until I find a model 18 that is like the one I grew up with. Assuming 4" barrel lengths for both, what are the important differences between the two?

MT2AShooter,
Since you are looking for a S&W 22 like the one you learned to shoot. (Model 18 with 3T's) I would recommend you hang tight until you can find a Model 18 which has the 4" barrel. You will most likely be disappointed by settling for something close (Personal experience). Even though the TT & TH versions aren't as easy to come by, please do yourself a favor and find one with that combo. You just can't replicate the feel of the 3T's. Attached is picture of 18-3 with TT & TH and pinned barrel, if pinned is important to you. Not 100% sure but I believe 18-4's are not pinned. Searching auctions...it looks like it would cost around $900-$1000 to get one in nice condition with your 3T setup. Even though it was only one I've seen at a gun show, I did run across one with this setup for $650 in pretty good condition about 6 months ago. All depends on how patient you can be and $$$ you want to spend. Much Luck to you!
Ray

 

[Housepuss]

Post #17 is correct about dash 4's not being pinned......sort of. In 1977 the dash 4 engineering change came about, however it wasn't until 1982 that the pinned barrels were eliminated. So I guess if you find a really nice 18-4, that meets your requirements, you're just going to have to look it over real close to see if it's pinned or not. In 1985 Model 18's were discontinued and did not reappear until 2009 as the model 18-7 in the Classic series.

 

[MT2AShooter]

Your posts and the accompanying photos are amazingly helpful and motivating. Based on my limited experience, two courses of action make sense. First, holding out for a model 18 with 3T's seems like good advice since I'm trying to replicate the experiences I had decades ago. In the meantime, it also makes sense to look for quality variants of the K-22, and models 17's and 18's that are not exactly like to one I shot as a kid, but which may provide their own unique form of satisfaction. Thanks for the help.

 

[merl67]

Basically barrel length, and type of front sight