1870 America model 3 Smith & Wesson hand Eject 44 cal 2 digit serial number

[junkking4fun]

single action 1870 America model 3 Smith & Wesson hand Eject 44 cal 2 digit serial number
the chamber is all one size not stepted like the russian model
I have photos upon request I was wondering if anyone has ever seen one like this as there is no photos anywhere of the one I have, any info would be great.
thankd for your time Duaine

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

Pictures are ALWAYS welcome here. Please post them!

 

[junkking4fun]

for some reason It wont let me post photos
email me for photos junkking4fun at yahoo.com

 

[Masterpiece]

Email Sent!!

 

[new2S&W]

Pictures of junkking4fun gun mentioned in this thread.

Posted on his behalf with his approval.

Any ideas what this might be?

 

[murphydog]

I believe it is a foreign-made S & W copy, but others here will probably know the country of origin.

 

[opoefc]

Definately not a Smith & Wesson. Probably European in origin. Ed.

 

[junkking4fun]

if you think it is a copy let me know where to look and see photos and the info, you wont find this gun, I have looked online and also talked to many gun experts and nobody has been able to find this, if it is a copy there should be thousands for sale online, I think it is a 45 cal prototype by S&W but I am not 100% sure and I am 100% sure its not a copy, some say its different guns put together but all the numbers match, I thin S&W made this 45cal hand eject and then did not mass produce them because colt made the self eject and S&W changed this model from hand eject to self eject to keep up.
If you have any input I am open Minded.
Thanks

 

[Oyeboteb]

Not an S&W.

Not an S&W Prototype.

It is a foreign, possibly Spanish or Belgian rendering of, or based to whatever degree, on the erstwhile S&W 'Break Top' design...

Not a 'Hand Ejector' which were a swing-out Cylinder and a solid Frame.

I have seen quite a few Belgian and Spanish renditions, similar to yours.

Possibly the Axle Pin for the Cylinder on yours, accomplishes the Cartridge ejection process by being depressed by Hand, instead of ejection being automatic when the Revolver is simply opened...so in that sense, "yes", it could be called a 'Hand Ejector' of sorts, but, in a different way than how that term usually denotes.

There were quite a few foreign Companies in the 1890s till about 1918 or so, who made these renditions.

 

[murphydog]

If you are able to post close-up photos of any stampings (lettering, numbers, proof marks) we may have a better idea of its origin. Member Ed is a somewhat experienced collector ( ) and may have more info if you can do that.

 

[Jim Watson]

colt made the self eject

And pray tell, just which Colt is that?

I have seen a number of knockoffs of S&W topbreaks but this the first one with the Schofield top latch. And I am pretty sure it IS a knockoff.

 

[deadin]

It wouldn't surprise me if that gun has no markings...
It looks almost homemade or, at least, a Frankengun.
(Somehow "Khyber Pass" comes to mind.....)

 

[junkking4fun]

Here Is some close up photos

 

[junkking4fun]

cylender and frame

 

[10/22]

Origin?

In the pics of cylinder being held, it looks like it does have a slight step in cylinders.
Could this be a Chinese copy? Oh no, they do better work. Back to that Khyber Pass theory. This is a very crudely made gun, something all USA manufactures were well beyond in capability and technology. Even the European copies are much finer work.

 

[opoefc]

junking4fun, Sorry, but this gun is a copy, crudely made somewhere far away from the USA. Your pictures cleary prove this. The various points of design, etc. that differ from a real S&W are numerous. Get yourself a real American Model and follow the comparisons (1) the view of the action shows a different design than a S&W. The action is similar, but the parts are of different dimensions, etc. (2) The cylinder chambers are countersunk. Not true in a S&W (3) the grip pin on the grip frame is located at the heel. S&Ws are in the center of the butt frame. (4) the number 17 and the letters on the butt are not S&W types. (5) The push type extractor bar is is the crude type seen on "Kyber Pass" guns. The total workmanship is too crude to even have been a prototype by S&W. All screws and pins are of the wrong dimensions to have been made by S&W. If these points of comparison don't convince you, then try to fit the screws in this gun into a real S&W. You will find you can't, as they will be the wrong screw thread pitch for a S&W. S&W used their own proprietary screw thread pitch and non S&W screws will never work in a real S&W. Sorry, but your gun is a crude copy. That doesn't mean you vcan't have fun with it and increase your knowledge about real S&Ws and the many different copies out there. Good Luck! Ed.

 

[junkking4fun]

on the top of barrel it has 2 lines it says
1st line
Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA Pat Jan 17
second line
24th 65 Junly 11th 65 Aug 24th 69 July 25th 71

if you fell this is a copy feel free to send me some photos of one that looks like this one, if this is a copy there will 1000's of them on the internet,
I just want to know for sure if it is a S&W or what ever it may be, lot of people emailing and message say copy and lots of I thinks it is a but they dont know.

 

[junkking4fun]

show me where you found this info i would like to see photos you found just like this one thanks

 

[10/22]

Thousands??

on the top of barrel it has 2 lines it says
1st line
Smith & Wesson Springfield Mass USA Pat Jan 17
second line
24th 65 Junly 11th 65 Aug 24th 69 July 25th 71

if you fell this is a copy feel free to send me some photos of one that looks like this one, if this is a copy there will 1000's of them on the internet,
I just want to know for sure if it is a S&W or what ever it may be, lot of people emailing and message say copy and lots of I thinks it is a but they dont know.

I don't want to be rude, but why would you think some guys making these in the front yard of their goat shed could build thousands? There were factories in the US that produced thousands of quality guns you will be lucky to see in your lifetime. If it were not for the net some very famous makes like Merwin & Hulbert would be practically unknown to all but avid collectors. Take the word of those who know. Smith & Wesson never came within a thousand miles of this handgun

 

[deadin]

if this is a copy there will 1000's of them on the Internet

What makes you think this??
If, as suspected, it a "Khyber Pass" gun, there are no two the same as they were cobbled together from hand made and salvaged parts.
Sometimes they even "marked" them with actual names and dates. Most times these markings were quite crude and didn't necessarily make sense. The barrel markings you posted are not quite right for any known S&W. Close, but not complete.
How about some pictures of the barrel markings?