1891 3rd Model (I believe)

[Country_Guy_in_WI]

I had a friend bring this to me, and he's looking to get rid of it, as he inherited it from his dad. I told him I could get a value and info, but that has deemed harder than I thought. Which brings me here. I believe I have a 1891 3rd Model 10" 22lr. Serial #9922 on both the frame, and barrel. Comes with a Marble Beaded 32. Is there a site, or place I could contact to get more in depth information, that one of you guys could recommend? I'm no expert on these, but this seems like it's in pretty darn good condition from what I have found. I appreciate any help here. Thanks a lot!

 

[Boulder350]

Looks like a 3rd model single shot (perfected). The grips are probably replaced. Most guns in your serial number range came with walnut grips in the same shape as yours. I can't tell for sure but the finish color looks a little off, maybe a possible refinish. The gun does not look like it was buffed for a refinish. Would need better pictures in natural light to see it better.

Have you removed the grips to see if there are some numbers stamped on the side of the frame indicating a return to the factory?

There is a serial number on the barrel. It resides on the flat or flats next to where the rear sight pivots. You may need to clean that area and possibly use a magnifier to see the numbers, if your eyes are as old as mine. Does the serial number match the frame?

Have you tried inserting a 22 long rifle shell into it? This gun was made around the time they started making the Olympic chamber. Its where the cartridge needs to be forced into the chamber about the last 1/16" to force the lead bullet into the rifling. If it has the Olympic chamber it adds a little to the value.

 

[glowe]

Welcome to the Forum. All barrels on the First Model Single Shot had a "Model of '91" stamped on the top rib along with patent dates. That model had its own serial number range from 1 - 28,107 made from 1893 - 1905. With the images you provided, one thing a Model of 1891 SS had that your gun does not was a recoil shield. Also the 1891 pistol was single action only and your pistol appears to be double action. The Second Model was also a single action only pistol made from 1905 to 1909 in a new serial number range 1 - 4617. It did not have a recoil shield and most did not have a Model of 1891 barrel stamp.

It appears your pistol is a Third Model Single Shot or Perfected Model. The Third Model was made from 1909 to 1923 in serial number range 4618 - 11641.

I added a picture of the 1st Model 1891 barrel, compared to later model barrels.

 

[Country_Guy_in_WI]

Thank you guys, I really appreciate it! I have attached more pictures. The one with my fuzzy gun mat, were taken outside to show off the finish. The barrel does match the serial number. The only thing I found under the grips was the letter, "B". As you can see, a 22lr doesn't quit fit in it, and I didn't want to push it in any further. It's a pretty cool gun I must say. The story behind it, is it was used by the Canadian Olympic shooters. He says he doesn't know if it's true, just that is what his dad said about it. I should add that the bore is in excellent condition, too.

 

[Country_Guy_in_WI]

My friend/customer has Letter of Authenticity for the pistol. I'm not familiar with those, but that would just have the history, and whereabouts of the gun has come from I believe, not value of the condition it is. Am I right in this?

 

[ol777gunnerz]

info

My friend/customer has Letter of Authenticity for the pistol. I'm not familiar with those, but that would just have the history, and whereabouts of the gun has come from I believe, not value of the condition it is. Am I right in this?

A S&W Letter will show the configuration of the pistol [length of barrel, grips, etc], who, when & where it was shipped to.

 

[rct269]

And depending upon when the letter was done, it may also note that those pistols beyond serial 9548 are Olympic Models-----those requiring effort to seat the cartridge by forcing the bullet into the rifling (later letters so note).

As an aside, it's my understanding these so-called Olympic Models were also used by the U.S. Olympic Team (in the 1920 games)---and that they won the event. That understanding comes from the "I hear tell" school of information dissemination, and is not presented as a matter of fact---although I imagine any and all of those folks into researching past events could confirm it one way or another in short order----at least as respects the winner of the event. My take on the story is S&W would have sung their praises from the rooftops had their pistols been used by the winners----and I know of no such claim. That said, it's not the only thing I don't know about.

Ralph Tremaine

As another aside, I know of only one pistol numbered beyond 9548 that is not an Olympic Model.

 

[PALADIN85020]

I devoted a chapter to the 3rd model single shot in my book 101 Classic Firearms, available by mail from Dillon Precision. Here is where you can find it.

John

101 Classic Firearms by John Marshall

 

[ol777gunnerz]

info

And depending upon when the letter was done, it may also note that those pistols beyond serial 9548 are Olympic Models-----those requiring effort to seat the cartridge by forcing the bullet into the rifling (later letters so note).

As an aside, it's my understanding these so-called Olympic Models were also used by the U.S. Olympic Team (in the 1920 games)---and that they won the event. That understanding comes from the "I hear tell" school of information dissemination, and is not presented as a matter of fact---although I imagine any and all of those folks into researching past events could confirm it one way or another in short order----at least as respects the winner of the event. My take on the story is S&W would have sung their praises from the rooftops had their pistols been used by the winners----and I know of no such claim. That said, it's not the only thing I don't know about.

Ralph Tremaine

As another aside, I know of only one pistol numbered beyond 9548 that is not an Olympic Model.

Also in 1920, the U.S. Olympic USRA team also had at least 1 Colt Camp Perry single shot. All handguns were furnished by S&W and Colt.

 

[mrcvs]

Also in 1920, the U.S. Olympic USRA team also had at least 1 Colt Camp Perry single shot. All handguns were furnished by S&W and Colt.

Are you sure about this, as the Colt Camp Perry was not manufactured until circa 1926. Unless a prototype was furnished?

 

[rct269]

More on this "This model after serial number 9548 was available with a special barrel which is called the Olympic barrel." business.

"These barrels were originally designed for the United States Olympic Team of 1908. The total production of the Olympic barrels is 2093 units. They were also supplied on special request and are found throughout the production series as replacement barrels." And never mind that barrels "found throughout the production series as replacement barrels" are clearly not included in the 2,093 units. I'm guessing the 2,093 units are those produced as complete pistols----not counting any and all converted by the addition of replacement barrels---and I'm guessing that because it's the only thing that makes any sense.

All in quotation marks are from a November 29, 2017 letter on #4826---an 8" version--which was a "single unit special order"----"in the production run of this model completed on June 21, 1911 and entered into the S&W shipping vault on that same day."---------and----"was shipped to J.A. Johnston Co., Pittsburgh, PA on June 24, 1911------."

Now this "total production of Olympic barrels is 2093 units" business is apparently derived from some 3rd grade arithmetic whereby 9548 was subtracted from 11641 (the last serial number of the 3rd Model series), and sure enough, you end up with 2093.

That said, and as I've noted earlier elsewhere, I'm aware of only one pistol within this serial number spread that is not an Olympic Model. I say I'm aware of it, I was told by a Forum member who most certainly understood what an Olympic Model was that his wasn't. I never had hands/eyes on his pistol, and also have no reason to doubt his word.

I'm told all this 9548 and beyond business came to be with a discovery of some internal memorandums within the Engineering Department which the good Doctor Jinks originally took to mean no Olympic Models were produced after #9548-------and after further investigation (and perhaps discovery of more memorandums) decided the exact opposite----------and virtually everything I've come across since learning of all this says he's right.

Ralph Tremaine