19-3 - New to Me

[MaxKimber]

I was lucky enough to find this 19-3 at a local sporting goods store at the used counter. Based on searching around I believe it is a 1971 gun: 2K23XXX.

I have a few questions for the group.

1. This is my first nickel gun and as you can see in the pictures, the finish appears milky or cloudy (hope you can see it in the pics). Again, searching around the most common cleaning/polishing agent was Flitz. Do you think Flitz will clean the cloudy/milky appearance on the nickel?

2. Am I correct on the delivery date of 1971?

3. How much should the cylinder move freely when locked in place. If there is too much play in the cylinder, can excess play be "easily" corrected?

4. Would those be the correct and/or original grips?

5. Guesses on what I paid for the 19-3 w/an old, well used, OWB leather holster?

 

[MaxKimber]

Additional pics...

 

[JP@AK]

Based on searching around I believe it is a 1971 gun: 2K23XXX.

Am I correct on the delivery date of 1971?

Yes. In 1971, 2K numbers went from 2K22038 to 2K55996.

If there is too much play in the cylinder, can excess play be "easily" corrected?

It depends on how you define "too much." Also rotation play is different from fore and aft movement. The tolerance is different and the solution is different. There are guys on here who are more knowledgeable on gunsmith issues than I am, so I'll let them respond.

Would those be the correct and/or original grips?

Decidedly not. Those rubber do-dads were made by Pachmayr and are an aftermarket addition. Your revolver left the factory wearing target stocks made of Goncalo Alves (wood).

 

[M29since14]

Question 1. Not possible for me to say. Judging from the pictures I would expect (hope for) a considerable improvement, but really the only way to tell is to pick an inconspicuous area of the gun and give it a try. It may require several polishing treatments. I wouldn’t expect to get it done in one day. You’ll probably wear out your fingers trying. Give it some time. Persistence usually pays. Come back and let us know how it turned out.

The Pachmayr stocks are not OE, but a lot of guys, myself included, found them very useful when firing magnum loads. I’d clean them up and keep them. The gun is a lot prettier with S&W target stocks, but it’s not nearly as comfortable to shoot.

Good luck with the polishing.

 

[JohnRippert]

Question 1. Not possible for me to say. Judging from the pictures I would expect (hope for) a considerable improvement, but really the only way to tell is to pick an inconspicuous area of the gun and give it a try. It may require several polishing treatments. I wouldn’t expect to get it done in one day. You’ll probably wear out your fingers trying. Give it some time. Persistence usually pays. Come back and let us know how it turned out.

The Pachmayr stocks are not OE, but a lot of guys, myself included, found them very useful when firing magnum loads. I’d clean them up and keep them. The gun is a lot prettier with S&W target stocks, but it’s not nearly as comfortable to shoot.

Good luck with the polishing.

I personally find S&W target stocks to be quite comfortable shooting 158gr magnum loads. That is all I have been shooting in my Model 19's for years.

OP:

I hope you do try to polish it with Flitz. Follow up with us if you do.

 

[BC38]

Now THAT one has POTENTIAL!

Looking at your photos close-up, I think that a soft cotton cloth (like an old T-shirt), some polish with a VERY mild abrasive (like Flitz or Mother's Mag Polish) and a little elbow grease should make that one shine up like a diamond-in-the-rough.

The period-correct Pachmayr grips that are on it aren't factory, but I have always thought of them as basically a rubber version of the original S&W wood target stocks. They are great for shooting hot 357 magnum rounds, but not nearly as pretty as the wood grips that your revolver likely came with from the factory.

If I were lucky enough to pick that one up, I'd be looking for set of nice period-correct wood target grips to buy for it, and I'd polish it up. Just be careful NOT to polish the case-coloring off the hammer, trigger, and ejector star. Those parts should NOT be shiny - because they weren't nickle plated from the factory.

I'd keep and use those rubber Pachmayr grips for shooting it and look for a set of pretty wood grips to put on it for display/photos.

As for a guess at the selling price, all I'll say is that since I'm seeing no real significant damage to the nickle finish, and considering the old "rule of thumb" that only about 10% of guns came from the factory with nickel plating, if you got it for under $500, you did good, IMO.

But I am far from being an expert, and there are a LOT of people here who may have a better, more-informed opinion than mine.

FWIW, in my area, I'd be a buyer for that one at anything under $500 or maybe even up to $600.

Welcome to the S&W forum. The Big Blue Forum is far and away THE best source of info there is for everything S&W...

 

[CajunBass]

I've Flitzed dozens of guns and have never seen one look worse for the experience, so I always figure I have nothing to lose. Your experience may varry of course. The key is to do it by hand, no power tools at all. Apply the stuff by hand, I just use my fingertip, let dry, then buff it off with a soft cloth. Remember you're trying to polish something, not sand a piece of plywood. An old T-shirt works well, although lately I've been using a pack of undershirts I got that were too small. I started to send them back but decided to keep them as "gun rags" rather than go to the trouble to return them. They've been well worth it. First world problem I suppose. Follow up with a coat of wax. I like Renaissance Wax, but there are others.

I like those Pachmayr Presentation grips. I'd want a set of period wood ones for that gun, especially if it cleans up nicely, but keep those Pachmayr's for shooting. You'll at least want to try both. They look like "Serious business" to me.

BTW. Neat looking Model 19. I'd guess it would have been tagged in the 5-600 range at my LGS. I'd have been really tempted to put it on layaway myself.

 

[stansdds]

Flitz is a good polish for cloudy nickel. Use a soft, cotton cloth, no power tools, just polish gently by hand and I expect much of that cloudy oxidized layer will come off and it will look better. A warning about rubber stocks, they will hold moisture against the revolver's frame and side plate. I like them for shooting full power magnum loads, but the underlying metal must be kept well maintained and it looks like the previous owner might not have been into firearm maintenance.

 

[Retired W4]

The cloudy appearance is usually caused by ammonia based solvents, like Hoppe's #9 being left on the gun after cleaning. Almost impossible to remove in late stages of infection. Nickel does not like ammonia. I'm no metallurgist but I'm pretty sure that is what happened to the finish.

 

[swagmeister]

I agree with the recommendations listed for cleaning/polishing your gun. That gun in my area would in that condition be $650-$700 all day long and would probably not last long in the case before it was purchased. Fine old Smith. Good luck.

 

[Engine49guy]

A few observations comments,

1) Get the blue Flitz cream in the toothpaste tube not the yellow liquid one in the bottle.
2) hold your breath removing those Pachmayer presentation stocks as rubber grips tend to collect moisture, u might find nothing or u might find pitting in the exact outline of those grips in which case using factory wood will show it.
3) make sure the rags are clean, if there is a piece of debris or u drop it on the floor and it picks up a grain of sand rubbing that across the nickel will leave permanent scratches.
4) When testing lockup pull the trigger back all the way so it is in full lockup.
5) An firm bristle toothbrush works the Flitz in good in the barrel rib and tang grooves.
6) IMO a complete disassembly will likely reveal a bunch of gunk inside, this is a good time for a complete disassembly including removing the rear slight leaf, cleaning the nickel finish will be much easier when disassembled.
As stated Flitz will remove the finish on the hammer/trigger but also the rear sight unit so removing it is good insurance.
6) If you decide to remove the ejector rod remember it's backwards threaded, I put 6 empty cases in the cylinder so not to load the cylinder pins and chuck the rod in my drill press to be safe.
7) If the red paint on the fs blade is nail polish acetone will remove it easily, if it's paint then paint thinner or mineral spirits on an old toothbrush.

On a side note S&W changed the way they mounted the front sight ramp to the barrel around 1969, older 19's (except snubs) have the ramp pinned to the barrel with two cross pins, nickel 19's made prior to 69 had a blue ramp on nickel barrel held with "proud" pins,
Nickel 19-3's made after 69 have a ramp that is integral with the barrel and a pinned sight blade that was polished flush, occasionally the pin is obvious like on your gun.

Good luck, that one will make an interesting before and after pic thread but will also be interesting if you take pics of what you find as you disassemble and go through cleaning it.

 

[Bald1]

I wanna see the holster

 

[MaxKimber]

Holster

Here is the holster...

 

[MaxKimber]

Additional Pics

First, thank you for the very informative responses. Much of what was said was well above my pay grade.

I will post pictures as I progress through this project. I do plan to clean it up and polish it. I may attempt to disassemble a little further, to be determined.

Here are the pictures with the grips off. How to I safely remove that little bit of rust?

Regarding the original and/or other recommended wooden grips, what is the correct verbiage I should be searching to find handles to fit the 19-3?

What do the other markings-stampings under the grip mean?

Again, I really appreciate the guidance.

Max

 

[Model19man]

Some fine bronze wool can be used to remove rust spots. There is usually some on eBay, Amazon, or you can typically find it at a hardware store. You want fine bronze wool - not any other kind.

 

[Model19man]

Grips are on eBay - search smith wesson k frame grips or click here:
Note that your revolver has a "square" butt - not a "round" butt.
Smith and Wesson K L Frame Target Checkered Grips 586 686 66 65 W/ Grip Screw | eBay

 

[BE Mike]

First, thank you for the very informative responses. Much of what was said was well above my pay grade.

I will post pictures as I progress through this project. I do plan to clean it up and polish it. I may attempt to disassemble a little further, to be determined.

Here are the pictures with the grips off. How to I safely remove that little bit of rust?

Regarding the original and/or other recommended wooden grips, what is the correct verbiage I should be searching to find handles to fit the 19-3?

What do the other markings-stampings under the grip mean?
Again, I really appreciate the guidance.

Max

Nothing wrong with using an old pure copper penny as a scraper to begin with.

 

[Engine49guy]

Rust on the grip frame is not that big a deal because once removed it won't be seen and a liberal coat of oil and occasional wipe down will keep it in check.

Rust on the sideplates is a different story, do not use anything abrasive or you will scar the nickle.
Be careful, if you rub on the rust some will deposit on the rag, that rust can scratch the nickel as is very soft and scratches easily.

In areas where the nickel is worn the Flitz will shine the steel , nickel is a coating and somewhat brittle, as stated avoid Hoppes gun oil as everyone has warned us thru time it supposedly has n ammonia base, once something gets under a breach in the nickel it can cause it to bubble up with time.

 

[Engine49guy]

Ps,
If you aren't familiar with the disassembly process there are plenty of really good step by step tutorials on YouTube.

Here's a pretty good one made by midway.
https://youtu.be/5NAZOr33nUo?si=F6oMa9ZN7Yc_fAgO

 

[BC38]

You can get fine bronze wool at Ace hardware.
If you choose to use a penny on the rust be sure it is one minted in 1983 or earlier - in 1984 they started making them of zinc and plating them with copper. Pennies older than that are pure copper.
I wouldn't use a penny on a nickel gun for fear of scratching it. I have used one on blued guns and it worked quite well.
If it were me I'd just use the bronze wool. Use it with a little oil too.