19-3 Unserviceable - Now What?

HAS THE GUN HAD ANY ACTION WORK?
I HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE ON DUTY GUNS. GUYS USED TO LOOSEN THE MAINSPRING SCREW TO LIGHTEN THE TRIGGER PULL. THERE IS A SWEET SPOT WHERE THE STIRRUP ON THE BOTTOM OF THE HAMMER CAN CONTACT THE TOP OF THE REBOUND SLIDE . TIGHTENING THE MAINSPRING SCREW FULLY SHOULD FIX THE PROBLEM IF IT IS LOOSENED. IT WAS A CHEAP AND DIRTY(DANGEROUS ON A DUTY GUN) ACTION JOB. DONE BY THE UNINFORMED. JP
 
very interesting thread for me. I've just been around the bush a couple of times with Ruger. A new GP100 /7 .357 does exactly the same thing, with Federal American Eagle .38sp.

Ruger told me I'm not cleaning it properly, and leaving too much gunk under the star. But they "adjusted the headspace".

Back to the range, same issue

But I own multiple GP100's and none fail like this. I'm thinking ammo!
 
PPCSHOOTER said:
HAS THE GUN HAD ANY ACTION WORK?
I HAVE SEEN THIS BEFORE ON DUTY GUNS. GUYS USED TO LOOSEN THE MAINSPRING SCREW TO LIGHTEN THE TRIGGER PULL...
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It is nearly 42 years old, so I don't know if it has had any custom work over the years. Again, I acquired the gun about 7 years ago and it was pretty much LNIB. Very faint turn line and almost no visible flame cutting in top strap, so I would be surprised if it has been modified, but I cannot rule it out. The mainspring screw is tight.

moosedog said:
Sounds worse than it is. A good gunsmith will get it right for you.
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I have no doubt that it is repairable. As you likely know, shipping a handgun can be an inconvenience. Not too bad if the FFL receiving the gun sends a prepaid shipping label like S&W does. Dealing with the mild inconvenience of shipping is my only gripe. Paying for the work is not a problem. I wish it was the good old days where a good gunsmith would have been within driving distance.

Marshal tom said:
Check to make sure there isn't something under the extractor star like a small burr or piece of crud stuck there.
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All clear under the extractor, and that is a spot that I'm up on with my maintenance regime. That's not to say there isn't some gunk or 42-year-old oil somewhere in the action.
 
robertrwalsh said:
If you are anywhere in the general vicinity of Stockton I can highly recommend Ken Genecco. He is not fast, you will be without your gun for 2-3 months, but he is very very good.
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I am within driving distance of Stockton. Do you have contact info for Ken (feel free to send via pm). Being without the gun for 2-3 months isn't a problem as S&W likely would have kept it that long, too. Edit: I looked up Ken Genecco online and found his info. Thanks for the suggestion!
 
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Babysitr said:
You said intermittent,so this probably wont help,but my M28 had an endshake issue where the cyl would rub against the forcing cone when dirty....one .002 shim resolved the whole issue
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I don't think that is the issue with this gun. It locks up tight with no perceivable cylinder endshake. Carry-up/timing are also spot on in both SA and DA.
 
I really think that whoever tears your gun down is going to find a tiny bit of some kind of crud somewhere that is binding the action. I'ts even possible that a tiny metal fragment from the manufacturing process is floating around in there all these years later. A S&W revolver is not a complicated device but they are built to tight tolerances. A small bit of debris in the wrong place can cause big problems.
 
Bosquebass said:
I really think that whoever tears your gun down is going to find a tiny bit of some kind of crud somewhere that is binding the action. I'ts even possible that a tiny metal fragment from the manufacturing process is floating around in there all these years later. A S&W revolver is not a complicated device but they are built to tight tolerances. A small bit of debris in the wrong place can cause big problems.
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That would be great if it is something that minor. I tend to think you are on to something since the frequency and repeatability of the issue seems to be somewhat haphazard. It seems that if a piece of steel has become damaged or worn, then the issue would occur with repeatability. The fact that the malfunction doesn't occur when using snap caps might support that theory. The shock and force generated when firing live ammo might be bouncing around a piece of gunk in the action. Firing snap caps would not cause the same force to bounce anything around. Just a thought.
 
Clarke Hammer said:
That would be great if it is something that minor. I tend to think you are on to something since the frequency and repeatability of the issue seems to be somewhat haphazard. It seems that if a piece of steel has become damaged or worn, then the issue would occur with repeatability. The fact that the malfunction doesn't occur when using snap caps might support that theory. The shock and force generated when firing live ammo might be bouncing around a piece of gunk in the action. Firing snap caps would not cause the same force to bounce anything around. Just a thought.
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That's just the way it was with my mid 60's vintage M15 I wrote about above. I hope your gun is as easy to fix as mine was and BTW, I fixed mine myself with the help of Youtube videos.
 
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I didn't read all the posts so forgive any dupes. Not an expert on smithing but here's my checklist when things go wrong.

1. Thorough cleaning.
2. Check to make sure all the parts are there and assembled correctly.
3. Ammo possible weak link?
4. Bent ejector rod?
5. Bent yoke?

Some observations based on experience:

Once had a Colt with a bulged chamber. Cylinder would rub on top strap binding the gun.

I've had ammo that was improperly sized or with high primers that would bind a cylinder.

I've seen a revolver with so much carbon build up on forcing cone/cylinder face that it would bind.

Had a revolver with an internal part slightly out of place gumming things up. Didn't think that one was possible until I saw it.

Could hammer or trigger be rubbing on something?

Once saw a set of aftermarket stocks that rubbed on the mainspring making the gun feel like it was binding.

No problem when dry firing? How about with spent cases loaded in the chambers?
 
Check underneath the extractor star for any unburned grains of powder that has been known to cause problems. Canned air or your favorite solvent with some q tips usually will get it out. Also check the alignment pins under the extractor to see if both are still there and when you let the extractor back down both pins are in their respective holes on the star. Frank
 
My 696 was a "used gun" purchase & had a very similar problem. I went as far as receiving a shipping label from the mothership, when I decided to remove the sideplate for a thorough cleaning.

I never saw anything odd nor a lot of crud. I removed the hammer, trigger, cylinder, bolt, etc. Cleaned everything, very lightly oiled and reassembled. It's been a couple hundred rounds ago (knocking on wood), and it has yet to re-occur.

I figure it was a small particle moving around in the "clockwork", and I just never saw it being flushed out. It's certainly worth a looksee.

Love to see a picture of it. :D
 
I bought a model 10 last month that had some rust issues. Took the sideplate off and pretty crusty in there. watched some YouTube videos and completely disassembled the gun( except the barrel, of course). Dunked it in automatic transmission fluid for a week. Total transformation. Action is slick. Had lots of funk inside cylinder but now spotless.

I’d get the proper screwdrivers and pop that sideplate off and disassemble. Just might cure your problem and it really was very easy.
 
I had one that would lock intermittently just as you’ve described. The cylinder locking bolt was worn or “over polished” at the point where the trigger contacts it to unlock the cylinder to allow it to rotate. Back then I was able to get the part from S&W and it was a 5 minute part replacement.

Or order a Power Custom oversized one from Midway.

Power Custom Oversize Cylinder Stop S&W K L - UPC: 197706629944

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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What I'd recommend to anyone in your position is to get the Jerry Kuhnhausen book on S&W DA revolvers and a good screwdriver with bit set for S&W revolvers (Chapman or Brownell's are very nice) and go through the diagnostics.
You'll learn a lot and probably enjoy the process. I know it is tough to get proper work done in CA, but last I heard they haven't banned screwdrivers or books out there! :)

Best Regards,
Jim
 
Is your trigger stop still in place? Usually, when this thing rotates out of position - like mine did - the problem is not intermittent; it locks up the gun completely. I cured my 19 by removing the stop. Could there be a scenario where the stop moves slightly under recoil causing your intermittent problem?
 
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