1911 Advice

[novalty]

Currently in the market for a 1911. Initial idea was to purchase a S&W SKU#108282, as I have shot one, and have had an excellent experience with S&W customer service. In looking around I have spotted some other name brand manufacturers for sale at prices in my range. One is a Colt Combat Elite XSE, and the other was a Dan Wesson Patriot, also have found some S/A MilSpecs. So many out there that is enough to make your head spin. I really am just looking for a reliable shooter. Any advice, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

 

[bamabiker]

First handgun I ever shot was an old Colt 1911 and my father had to help me hold it. Been a Colt 1911 guy ever since.
That said, I don't think you can go wrong with any of the ones you listed.. I've read good things about all of them.

 

[cmort666]

My first M1911 (and my first handgun) was a Series 70 Colt. That was followed by a plain GI type Springfield Armory, a Giles .38 Special and a Norinco.

Before I got laid off, I was looking at a Rock Island in .38 Super. The Rock Islands have a good reputation for quality and reliability. If I were looking for an M1911 now, I'd consider:

Springfield
Rock Island
S&W

Check out a few issues of "Combat Handguns" magazine. They usually have very informative reviews, frequently of M1911s.

 

[Rule3]

Well, I am not that big a fan of the 1911 but for range shooting they are great (for me). I only have a few.

I just bought the SW #108299 and must say it is a great gun, very accurate and feeds anything. No problems at all. The quality of the metal parts which I guess are MIM do not have the same feel as the Dan Wesson Stainless, but hey they all work.

I am comparing it to a Dan Wesson PM #7 Major which I bought years ago(used, like new) and it is the most accurate gun I own. To buy one new today is a lot of money.

Lots of folks buy those Kimbers but they seem overpriced to me.

Barb will chime in, she is the 1911 hoarder, I mean expert!

Edit, These days, if I buy a NEW gun which isn't often I am only going to buy from a company that has the best customer service. S&W has to be the best (not just saying that, they are outstanding) Springfield is really good also.

 

[H Richard]

That is a really tough decision. There are so many out there that will fill your needs. It will probably depend on $$$$$$, so put all the best ones on a sheet of paper and and make a list of the pro's and con's of each one. If money is no object, the S&W is one of the best.

 

[oldman45]

I have two S&W 1911 pistols and I would get rid of every gun I own before either of them would leave my hands.

 

[novalty]

The only thing I didn't care for on SpringField Armory's Mil-spec was the fixed blade rear sight, prefer the look of the Novak style. I like the looks of the Colt Combat Elite XSE, only concern is the wear of the blueing on the slide, opposed to the all stainless S&W.

 

[haggis]

... the other was a Dan Wesson Patriot...

If the Patriot has adjustable sights, make sure they have fixed the problem with the firing pin stop being able to move up from its normal position. I saw an experienced shooter have an AD when the stop moved upon firing and trapped the firing pin forward behind the stop. Because of the external extractor, the next round chambered and then was fired by the "fixed" firing pin. BTW, it took a lot of experimentation and skull sweat to figure out what happened.

Most firing pin stops are restrained from moving upward. Dan Wesson had milled off the top of the stop slot for the adjustable rear sight, and that created a straight slot that the stop could slide in. Couple that with a loose firing pin stop and a "hammer down" command at the end of an IDPA stage, It was only a matter of time before the AD happened on the following stage.

What bothered me the most was the very lackadaisical attitude that Dan Wesson had when I called them about it. This was pre-CZ, and maybe they are better now, but I sure wouldn't buy anything from them until I was sure this problem was fixed.

Buck

 

[shooboy]

Hi Novalty, I'm going to suggest the Metro Arms "American Classic II" Tactical. Comes stock with lots of nice features including the Novak style sights. Mine has been running very well. It's nicely finished and the slide to frame fit is incredible for a 1911 in this price range. At around $440 I believe it's hard to beat. I really want another one in hard chrome finish. Good luck in your search, Shoo
Here's my American Classic II:

 

[Blacksmith58]

Smith & Wesson 1911

Springfield Armory 1911A1 V-10

When I hold a 1911, it's like shaking hands with an old friend!

 

[Old cop]

I purchased the Springfield MilSpec and have put around 1500 rounds through it. I had to send it back to Springfield once due to failure to feed problems. They did a nice job on the fix and got it back to me in two weeks. One thing about Springfield magazines, they sometimes double feed. I've read lots on the Internet about their mags, nothing good. You will get two with the gun (about $800 new), but I bought Wilson combat mags and never looked back.

 

[LAZY EYED SNIPER]

I've had my S&W 1911 for a few years now and have had no issues with well over 2500 rounds through it. Love my .45's...

Just picked up a Kimber Ultra CDP II .45 for concealed carry and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far...

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Ask yourself what features you really need on the pistol. Do you really need that ambidextrous thumb safety, the Commander-style hammer, the beavertail grip safety, speed (three-hole) trigger, the Novak-style sights, and all the rest of the gee-gaws that are so ubiquitous on 1911s these days? These doo-dads were all added so that the factories could muscle in on the after-market custom gun biz and charge almost as much for something that ain't.

If you just want a shooter, get a plain-Jane Springfield mil-spec or one of the new Colt Series 70 Government Models without all the Christmas tree ornaments, and have a ball at the range. Both of these come with decent iron sights, will outlive you by several generations, and are well-made no-nonsense pistols. If later you want to customize one, most 1911 gunsmiths will be happy to work on them, something that is not true of the Norincos, Auto Ordinance, and other poorly made 1911 copies.

The Wilson-Rogers magazines are worth the money, but the $7.00 Metalform's perform just as well.

Just one man's opinion.


Bullseye

 

[Kanewpadle]

Dollar for dollar Dan Wesson is the best value in a 1911.

Extremely well made. See for yourself.

Any other company that makes a 1911 comparable to Dan Wesson probably has "Custom Shop" on it and it costs at least 300-500 dollars more.

 

[haggis]

If later you want to customize one, most 1911 gunsmiths will be happy to work on them, something that is not true of the Norincos, Auto Ordinance, and other poorly made 1911 copies.

Hang on there a minute. Norinco's have forged large parts, machined small parts, no MIM, and are pretty good right out of the box. The steel is harder than most other 1911's. The last I heard, they were one of the few 1911's that Wilson Combat would work on. It is not a poorly made gun, by any measure.

Buck

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

My "1911" is an S&W Model 4506.

 

[29aholic]

At last count I have owned 47 1911 variants of one sort or the other, mostly C***'s with a few Springfields. Back in the day choices were limited. Now the market is full. I am a dyed in the wool S&W man but I dont buy things (cars, guns, etc) based on brand loyalty, but if I was considering a 1911 I would take a long look at the S&W for one reason, it has an external extractor which I believe superior to the original design. Now before you all get your panties in a wad, I have never had an extractor issue with any gun I've had but I know of several. The way I look at it...if it was so good JB would have used it on the High Power.

 

[Firehouse]

I own but two. But I invested quite a bit in them. I had a Springfield Champion Operator at one time, but I sold it to fund another. You can spend as little or as much as you want in a 1911. Anything from a an old Star Firestar to Ed Brown or a Night Hawk Custom. 1911 collecting can get very VERY expensive. Don't ask me how I know this. I was forewarned by Joni Lynn. Or maybe Barb. I don't remember, but if a woman tells you something you should log it in the back of your head and keep it. Trust me.

 

[Snapping Twig]

Had this

Sold it and bought this

IMO, dollar for dollar, DW can not be beat.

My Kimber was unable to chamber my reloads reliably. They were within spec, been loading them for many years, shot them out of other 1911's reliably, but the chamber on my Custom CDP II was too tight.

Seems the DW eats anything I throw at it and is accurate. Series 70 too.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Hang on there a minute. Norinco's have forged large parts, machined small parts, no MIM, and are pretty good right out of the box. The steel is harder than most other 1911's. The last I heard, they were one of the few 1911's that Wilson Combat would work on. It is not a poorly made gun, by any measure.

Buck

Buck,

As I said, it's just one man's opinion. But, since you asked, another disadvantage to Norincos is that they are made by slave labor, and every one that is sold benefits the Peoples' Liberation Army -- you know, the people who are committing genocide in Tibet. As I said, just one man's opinion.


Bullseye

 

[oldman45]

Hang on there a minute. Norinco's have forged large parts, machined small parts, no MIM, and are pretty good right out of the box. The steel is harder than most other 1911's. The last I heard, they were one of the few 1911's that Wilson Combat would work on. It is not a poorly made gun, by any measure.

Buck

Not sure where you got your Norinco or when but I bought one about 20 yrs ago new. It has maybe 500 rounds sent out the barrel. I can hold it in my hands, shake it sideways and listen to the slide as well as other parts rattle. Granted it does work but has very ill fitting parts and I will not be buying another.

 

[Onomea]

...Norinco .... I can hold it in my hands, shake it sideways and listen to the slide as well as other parts rattle. Granted it does work but has very ill fitting parts and I will not be buying another.

Some guys will make the point that loose fitting means reliable; dropped in the mud and filthy, still goes bang, whereas tight fitting can cause issues. I would not look askance because it rattles.

I think your rattle-when-you-shake-it Norinco is probably not as accurate at 25 yards as my high-end, and tight fitting, high-dollar Wilson Combats, but up front and personal, as long as it goes bang, doesn't matter much, right?

I hear good things about Norinco.

 

[smitty_bs]

Here's S&W. Short guide rod, fixed Novak sights, wood grips, no forward serrations, just relatively simple. It's more accurate than I am and utterly reliable. I love it.

 

[ladder13]

Some guys will make the point that loose fitting means reliable; dropped in the mud and filthy, still goes bang, whereas tight fitting can cause issues. I would not look askance because it rattles.

I think your rattle-when-you-shake-it Norinco is probably not as accurate at 25 yards as my high-end, and tight fitting, high-dollar Wilson Combats, but up front and personal, as long as it goes bang, doesn't matter much, right?

I hear good things about Norinco.

+1 loose fitting, just the way JB made them.

I like em' all

 

[cmort666]

Not sure where you got your Norinco or when but I bought one about 20 yrs ago new. It has maybe 500 rounds sent out the barrel. I can hold it in my hands, shake it sideways and listen to the slide as well as other parts rattle. Granted it does work but has very ill fitting parts and I will not be buying another.

I bought mine used from a friend with the first Bush tax refund. The small internal parts were pure garbage, but the frame, slide and barrel are first rate. I replaced the trigger parts and grips and had some minor adjustments made for reliability. It's more than accurate enough at 50', much less 7 yards.

What I spent didn't even come within a mile of the price difference between the Norinco and even a tricked out factory gun. It's 100% and I carry it regularly.

 

[ColbyBruce]

Let me try this again

I currently have three 1911's.

Kimber Classic Custom Royal

Colt LW Commander

Norinco

I have owned many other 1911's. Colt, Interarms, mil-surp, ODI, Randall, AMT, Kimber, AO, Safari Arms, and a few parts guns built on Essex frames. They all went bang. With the exception of the AMT's, they all functioned properly. At 15 yards, I can pretty much empty the magazine into a softball size group with any of them. Some of those guns would do better out of a Ransom Rest (wish I had never sold it) but they were all good enough to be toters.

My son recently sold his Ed Brown Special Forces. It was a nice pistol. So nice, in fact, he was afraid to carry it. It shot very well, did not rattle, and was a fine piece of machinery. It cost him close to $1,800.00, IIRC (not sure if that included his holster). He bought it off a forum member here. I would like to own one myself.

Depending on your budget and tastes there is a wide variety of 1911 style pistols to choose from and they all basically do the same thing.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Some guys will make the point that loose fitting means reliable; dropped in the mud and filthy, still goes bang, whereas tight fitting can cause issues. I would not look askance because it rattles.

I think your rattle-when-you-shake-it Norinco is probably not as accurate at 25 yards as my high-end, and tight fitting, high-dollar Wilson Combats, but up front and personal, as long as it goes bang, doesn't matter much, right?

I hear good things about Norinco.

I always thought that the gun was made to be an utterly reliable center mass at 25 yerds gun. Was never meant to be finely machined to almost zero tolerance. Kinda like a plow mule rather than a thoroughbred . It ain't the fastest around the track but it will get you there. Seems like most of the problems with them come when you try to make them a one hole at 50 yard gun rather than what it was meant to do. Course I'm just a newbie at the 1911 thing having only purchsed my first within the past couple of months, but as long as I can hit 5" plartes at 25 yards, I'm a happy camper.

 

[srgvaz]

Wilson Combat, COLT, Les Baer, Springfield Armory, S&W in that order.

 

[johngalt]

I always thought that the gun was made to be an utterly reliable center mass at 25 yerds gun. Was never meant to be finely machined to almost zero tolerance. Kinda like a plow mule rather than a thoroughbred . It ain't the fastest around the track but it will get you there. Seems like most of the problems with them come when you try to make them a one hole at 50 yard gun rather than what it was meant to do. Course I'm just a newbie at the 1911 thing having only purchsed my first within the past couple of months, but as long as I can hit 5" plartes at 25 yards, I'm a happy camper.

I believe that a more accurate description is that it was designed to be mass produced with interchangeable parts, so that any frame, slide, barrel, and bushing could be put together without fitting by a gunsmith. The fact that this results in loose fitting guns is a result of the manufacturing requirements of the times, not by intentional design.

A loose gun does not mean that it is reliable, nor does a tight gun mean that it is unreliable. If it is built CORRECTLY, it can be tight, accurate, and utterly reliable.

 

[ladder13]

But, since you asked, another disadvantage to Norincos is that they are made by slave labor, and every one that is sold benefits the Peoples' Liberation Army --

Bullseye

I guess that means we'll have to throw away our computers, cell phones, TV's, stereo's, and go buck naked. How will we ever be able to surf this Forum?