1911 fixed sight accuracy

[Empe]

In an earlier post I mentioned I was seriously considering the purchase of a Colt 1911 Classic .It's a new release and is just a basic no frills 1911 with a National Match barrel . I have seen one in person & really like the looks of it . It comes with fixed sights similar to the GI type with the rear being adjustable for windage only and the front being staked in place.
I'm not interested in using the gun for any type of competition just for myself on targets both paper & steel .
My question is to those of you who have a fixed sight 1911. How easy is the gun to shoot with these sights. Does it shoot to point of aim ? I guess my concern with having non adjustable sights ...what if you need to make adjustments other than for windage ?

 

[ContinentalOp]

I don't have a lot of experience with 1911s, and I only have one with fixed sights (aftermarket), but I don't recall there being any issues with accuracy, at least with standard 230gr loads.

If necessary, you can either modify or change the sights to suit your needs. One of the nice things about 1911s is that there are lots of options for sights, some requiring more work than others. Changing the front sight to a dovetailed sight is pretty common and can make it easier to change as needed, whether it's a pre-made sight of a specified height or a blank that you (or a gunsmith) can adjust as needed.

You might want to see if you can find that gun, or something similar, i.e. a Colt Govt Model with fixed sights, at a rental range and give it a try.

Personally, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

 

[Fishinfool]

Fixed sights should be just as accurate as adjustable. Will they shoot POA with your chosen load? That is the question. Windage shouldn't be an issue with the dove tailed rear sight. Elevation can be adjusted by replacing the front sight with one of the proper height. Not really hard to do if you have an inexpensive staking tool, or not much $ for a gunsmith to do. Much cheaper than having a dovetail cut for the front sight. This all works best when you have a load you settle on for your "go to". Adjustable sights really shine when you shoot a variety of different loads regularly.

Larry

 

[arjay]

I’ve owned a number of fixed sight guns and used to shoot quite a bit. If you stick with one gun and shoot it regularly,you’ll become proficient with it.Another option is reloading your own ammunition. A slower load, regardless of bullet weight, will hit higher than a faster load.Reloading is something worth experimenting with.

 

[vonn]

You will learn the sight picture you need to use for the ammo you use. Once you figure that out the proper picture the fixed sights are pretty good. Start with some standard 230 fmj and a 6 o’clock hold and try to shoot good groups and once you have good groups then if you need you can adjust your aiming point.

 

[WR Moore]

Decades ago I realized something with my adjustable sight handguns. Once I got the sights adjusted, I never moved them-with one exception.

The 1911 design came out of the factory with essentially the same sights for most of it's 70+ year tenure as our military service sidearm. I think you'll find they'll shoot about 2 inches high (give or take a smidgen) at 25 yards with 230 gr at about 850 f/s, very close with 200 gr slightly faster.. Minor differences in elevation generally aren't that big a deal.

As others have noted, you either learn to hold off if you choose some odd ball load or just stick to the classics.

Also as noted, slightly higher visibility fixed sights really aren't budget burners.

BTW: we see a lot of posts about folks needing different front sights 'cause they're shooting X inches low at 7-10 yards. At that range it isn't the sights. It's the operator yanking the trigger.

 

[Rpg]

My Colt 1911’s have all been modified to include (among other things) adjustable BoMar sights.

The main reason for the BoMar sights isn’t adjustability: it’s the quick and highly visible sight picture they provide.

Since I use the same load for everything, I don’t need to adjust the sights.

I’d be much more concerned about whether the sights on the gun you’re considering are highly visible than whether they’re adjustable. The old GI sights are terrible in this regard.

Note: I won’t have sights with dots or fiber optic sights. These things are distractions and not at all helpful in my view. Plain black sights are much quicker and more precise for me.

 

[stansdds]

As long as your eyes are good and you can clearly see the sights, the small sights original to the M1911 design are adequate and will allow you to shoot accurately. The bigger sights introduced on the Series 80 pistols allow for faster sight acquisition and that can be handy for action pistol style shooting and may be of some benefit in a defensive pistol.

 

[WC145]

Most of my 1911s have fixed sights, some factory, some not. Most factory sights are regulated for 25yds dotting the front sight with the bullseye of your target, you can pretty much use a dead on hold from point blank to 50yds. I think Colt factory sights give a decent sight picture, in general they'll be as accurate as you are.

 

[max]

Kind of depends on your eyes. I find the original GI sights too small. All of my 1911's have better sights. They don't need to be adjustable, just visible.

 

[merl67]

Some might disagree, but sights have zero to do with the accuracy of any firearm. They do however have everything to with how well you are able to hit a given target at different distances, lighting conditions, ect. GI sights were designed to be rugged, and foolproof which they are, but not as user friendly as some other sights. Accuracy in the 1911 like most similar autoloaders is dependant on tight tolerances and of course a great barrel. I may have left something out, but those are my unfiltered immediate thoughts on the subject

 

[Grayfox]

At normal defensive distances the sights aren't going to be off enough to matter.

 

[boatbum101]

The tiny GI sights if you've still got good eyes are just OK . They do make replacements the higher profile NM Hardball sights are much better & just as robust . As stated above they're regulated for 230gr FMJ GI spec ammo .

 

[Texas Star]

I've found std. GI and Colt commercial sights to be "on" and adequate.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, fixed sight handguns are accurate, it's the POA that's the problem. One solution is to get a high front sight which you can then file down-carefully-to zero in with. As others have noted find the one load that suits you and stick with it.

 

[Kurusu]

Accuracy has nothing to do with the sights being adjustable or not.

And, even fixed sights are adjustable.

 

[sotexas]

I am waiting on delivery of a Colt Black Army. I view the fixed sights as an original 1911 look and anticipate the challenge for accuracy. All my other guns have movable sights that after approximately 75 - 100 rounds have been adjusted for my shooting style. I find the old style COLTS to be BA looking guns.

 

[Texas Star]

Sgt York did okay with a fixed sight GI .45, as have other heroes.

 

[Empe]

Sgt York did okay with a fixed sight GI .45, as have other heroes.

Yes he did ...but Sgt York was shooting at man sizes targets mine will be much smaller hence I need to be able to shoot more accurately.

 

[Kurusu]

Yes he did ...but Sgt York was shooting at man sizes targets mine will be much smaller hence I need to be able to shoot more accurately.

Is this accurate enough for fixed sights?

[ame="https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B1EPN5CBB_M"]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B1EPN5CBB_M[/ame]

Edit. The video was from a training session. This is a target from actual competition.

 

[6string]

Old National Match Sight Rules

When the 1911 was first introduced, competitors at Camp Perry had to draw a pistol from inventory and shoot the course as is, using military hardball ammo.
As 1911s became commericially available, the NRA rules allowed the sights to be replaced but they still had to be fixed sights!
King's Gunsight Co. offered a fixed sight set for National Match use that incorporated a slightly taller front and rear sight with an excellent sight picture. The front sight had to be of the stake-on type, but could be of a Patridge type profile. You would adjust the rear sight (with its clear square notch) for windage and file down the front sight for elevation. Since match rules required the use of 230 gr hardball ammo, you weren't likely going to have a need to resight the gun. With such a set-up you had just as good a sight picture as with a nice set of adjustable sights, yet it still had all the qualities of a true service pistol.

See the attached image to view a sampling of the King front sights for 1911.

Jim

PS: Hi Mario (Kurusu), once again we seem to be drawn to the same threads, with similarly veined responses! Ha!!

 

[walnutred]

The stock sights were fine when my eyes were younger, a bit of a struggle now. Back in the last century I found myself part of a pistol qualification team along with another Sgt and a Lt. who was there to make it official. The requirements were fairly simple, 50 shots into a military knock down target at 25. IIRC you needed a minimum of 35 /50 hits to qualify. I got tired of the new Butter Bars complaining about how inaccurate the 1911A1 was and wishing they had the then new M9. So we set up a knock down target at 75 yards and during the safety briefing I would fire a magazine into the 75 yd target, then the other Sgt would explain that we were only expecting them to shoot at 25 yds. This was an as issue Remington 1911A1 and we picked 75 yards because that was the longest range I could consistently hit the target, I probably dropped a few shots but most of the time it was 7/7.

 

[Watchdog]

In an earlier post I mentioned I was seriously considering the purchase of a Colt 1911 Classic .It's a new release and is just a basic no frills 1911 with a National Match barrel . I have seen one in person & really like the looks of it . It comes with fixed sights similar to the GI type with the rear being adjustable for windage only and the front being staked in place.
I'm not interested in using the gun for any type of competition just for myself on targets both paper & steel.

That's the thing, right there, with stock 1911s and fixed sights. As long as you keep the fact in mind that the pistol wasn't designed to be a target pistol, you'll be fine and you won't be disappointed in its accuracy.

Fixed sight accuracy? This again boils down to the pistol's original purpose. It's a combat pistol, made for killing men at combat distances. When I say "combat distance", I mean within 50 yards.

Lots of detractors badmouth the standard 230-grain hardball load. That round isn't anything to sneer at. A bullet doesn't have to expand and/or fragment to kill someone.

But again...the gun will be accurate for your stated purpose with any load. You just have to do your part, that's all.

 

[bigggbbruce]

When I'm out shooting I pick targets in close and out to 50 yards maybe more.

I don't pull out a screwdriver to adjust between the different distances.

Only past 50 yards on most calibers do I start having a bullet drop issue (my 10mm solves that).. most targets with a handgun are less than that.

 

[wetdog1911]

When the 1911 was first introduced, competitors at Camp Perry had to draw a pistol from inventory and shoot the course as is, using military hardball ammo.
As 1911s became commericially available, the NRA rules allowed the sights to be replaced but they still had to be fixed sights!
King's Gunsight Co. offered a fixed sight set for National Match use that incorporated a slightly taller front and rear sight with an excellent sight picture. The front sight had to be of the stake-on type, but could be of a Patridge type profile. You would adjust the rear sight (with its clear square notch) for windage and file down the front sight for elevation. Since match rules required the use of 230 gr hardball ammo, you weren't likely going to have a need to resight the gun. With such a set-up you had just as good a sight picture as with a nice set of adjustable sights, yet it still had all the qualities of a true service pistol.

See the attached image to view a sampling of the King front sights for 1911.

Jim

PS: Hi Mario (Kurusu), once again we seem to be drawn to the same threads, with similarly veined responses! Ha!!

Kings sights were great! I didn't get the NM set, but got the Kings/Tappan fixed combat sights installed on my 1985 SAI 1911A1. A bit lower than the NM to avoid holster problems and a 3 dot. Once centered and adjusted they haven't been touched in close to 40 years. POA=POI @ 15 yds. This was my carry gun until arthur took over my hands. Nothing fancy, just solid performance and dependablity.

Rob

 

[stansdds]

When I'm out shooting I pick targets in close and out to 50 yards maybe more.

I don't pull out a screwdriver to adjust between the different distances.

Only past 50 yards on most calibers do I start having a bullet drop issue (my 10mm solves that).. most targets with a handgun are less than that.

Yep. In competition you might be shooting at targets located 50 yards out or more, but generally speaking, handgun engagements are at 25 yards or less and often less than 7 yards.

 

[max]

Like Wet dog, I have King-Tappan sights on my Commander and really like them. Wish I would have put them on my Hi-Powers also.