1911 - Tired, Old, Unreliable Pistol Past It's Prime?

[Puller]

Many have a real or imagined romance with the 1911 .45ACP. While there is nothing wrong with the .45ACP caliber, according to Larry Vickers, you may want to find another pistol platform to shoot it from.

That's essentially the message ex- Delta Force, author and now self defense gun instructor Larry Vickers tells his students. Larry Vickers goes on to say that he has seen about every make and model of 1911 in his classes, along with every type of failure to fire, jam, and failure to feed situation that you can possibly think of with the 1911 and his end message to students is this; "Unless you have $3,500+ to spend on a well fitted and tuned 1911 as well as understand exactly what ammo it personally likes to feed & eat best then, just go buy a Glock!"

Every time I think about getting another 1911 I think about Larry Vickers message and instead turn my thoughts to a more modern designed .45 ACP that holds twice the ammo while still being nimble and, most importantly, goes "bang" every time you pull the trigger. Oh, and for $3,500 I could buy a several decked out modern polymer pistols with money left over for .45 ACP ammo versus owning a minimal acceptable 1911 while praying I can locate the exact manufacture and bullet weight my specific 1911 is reliable with (more challenging to do today with ammo shortages). Yes, there is no denying that a forged steel, hand fitted 1911 with a trigger that breaks like glass is a beautiful piece of mechanical engineering, but for serious work perhaps it's better for such 1911's to reside as vault queens in 2021 .

I wonder who has made the journey into the world of 1911 platform pistols and then left for other more modern pistol platforms which exhibit better reliability, increased ammo capacity, are less picky about ammo to feed, are more nimble and have the ability to add red dot sights, lights, etc.? Conversely, if you journeyed into the world of 1911's and decided to stay primarily with the 1911 platform, what makes you stay when the evidence seems overwhelming that a more modern pistol platform just has too many advantages to over look ?

So, I actually borrowed the original post from another forum that someone else had posted. His post got a pretty good rise out of the 1911 crowd. . . kind of like here. I've never even heard of Larry Vickers and have no clue who he is.

Pretty much what I've learned is folks like to defend their favorite firearm. From 1911's to J-frames to Glocks to Sigs to even a SAA thrown in. People just don't like for their favorite shooting iron to be criticized whatever it may be.

Personally, I'm a 1911 fan and own a couple myself. Although I prefer to carry a Glock for concealed carry, I still like my 1911s.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

"I stayed at a Holiday End last night Vickers'".

No that's funny!!!!!!!!!!! Best thread in this post.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Old proverb..........Don't believe anything you read and 1/2 of what you see.

 

[Rubone]

I have a special crusher I built to get rid of 1911s and turn them into boot scrapers. Please send all your unwanted 1911s and I will put you on the waiting list for the scrapers as there is quite a demand....

 

[LostintheOzone]

So, I actually borrowed the original post from another forum that someone else had posted. His post got a pretty good rise out of the 1911 crowd. . . kind of like here. I've never even heard of Larry Vickers and have no clue who he is.

Pretty much what I've learned is folks like to defend their favorite firearm. From 1911's to J-frames to Glocks to Sigs to even a SAA thrown in. People just don't like for their favorite shooting iron to be criticized whatever it may be.

Personally, I'm a 1911 fan and own a couple myself. Although I prefer to carry a Glock for concealed carry, I still like my 1911s.

So why didn't you quote that post from another forum and add your own comment about it?

Just trolling the gang here?

We get enough of that without you looking for some cheap thrills.

Aren't you clever? Ignore list for you amigo. Hasta La Vista DH.

 

[BC38]

None of my 1911s are finicky. They shoot everything reliably except 185 gr jacketed wadcutters (lead wadcutters are fine), which aren't defense ammo. They are all reliable, accurate, and didn't cost $3500.

I've shot Glocks, still own 0. About the only good thing about them is they're cheap and could almost be considered disposable. Not giving up my 1911 for a Fisher-Price quality trigger.

Well said.
I haven't tried much 185 gr ammo in my two 1911's. I like the 230gr stuff. What little I have shot was no problem. They cost about 10% of that $3500 price tag.
I don't own any Glocks and haven't shot one. But I have a 457, and a PT145 and they weren't more than $350 apiece either.
If the price of entry into a reliable 1911 really is $3500 then it probably is time to forget them.

 

[Junkenstien]

Larry Vickers said the glock 21 is a dog and my experience leads me to believe otherwise.

 

[1911haulic]

I have a range from $400 to $3900 1911s, non are for sale especially the $400 one. I'll keep my 1911s. I do have an assortment of other firearms to scratch the itch of whatever I want to shoot or carry.

To me the 1911 is a piece of art. My oldest is a 1913 with the original scabbard.

 

[RWPBR]

Puts big holes in bad guys... How is that obsolete?

 

[Univibe]

Puts big holes in bad guys... How is that obsolete?

I carried a compact 1911 for a couple decades. Now it's a G19.

16>7.

That's obsolescence.

It's 2022.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

Opinions are like ********... everybody has one and their value is equal, including someone's from "Delta Force".

It sounds like a lot of fanboy praise and self-aggrandizement to me, to appeal to the younger "tacticool" crowd.

All handguns have an occasional hiccup, so what's the big deal if you quickly amend the problem? It doesn't matter what you shoot. What matters is training, awareness and experience.

Know your weapon.

 

[minconrevo]

In .45 ACP both good 1911's and Glocks are serviceable. I've run 100's of thousands through 1911's and 10's of thousands through Glocks. The 1911 has a nicer trigger and is more accurate. The Glock, with just a few mods, becomes pretty decent to shoot, but not up to 1911 standards. The Glock is well up to its intended purpose at less than 1/3 the cost of a good 1911. Both can preserve your hide just fine. Take your pick or maybe get both.

 

[reddog81]

Pretty much what I've learned is folks like to defend their favorite firearm. From 1911's to J-frames to Glocks to Sigs to even a SAA thrown in. People just don't like for their favorite shooting iron to be criticized whatever it may be..

Nope! People will call BS when others post ****. Especially when it's just copy and paste garbage.

 

[BC38]

Puts big holes in bad guys... How is that obsolete?

So does a muzzle-loader. Or a blunderbuss. Or a spear.

 

[The Norseman]

Big Bore

When I was younger I always wanted a 1911 45ACP.
Revolvers took priority.

Then fortunately in the Spring of 2011 Ruger came
out with their SR1911. I got one then that Spring.

Under $630.00, very well made and finished,
slide to frame tight, safe, accurate and boringly
reliable from the get go. Shot all my different
reloads I tried in it.

I have no doubt that this SR1911 would do
just fine in an emergency. Don't need no
stinking $3200 gun, just don't bring a
knife to a gun fight!

 

[austintexas]

I got acquainted with the 1911 at Wheelus Field, Lybia in 1961. Each squadron had an arms room and E-4 and above could check out a weapon and take it to the range on the weekends. If you belonged to the Rod & gun club and had a locker you could keep your GI weapon there and not have to check it back in until you rotated. I checked out a 1911 in '61 and turned it back in in '64. When GI ammo was not available we would use R&G Club reloading equipment and load all week and shoot all day Saturday. I would have loved to keep that 1911, I put a lot of rounds thru it. I had an armorer tune my 1911. Tightened the slide and worked on the trigger. We even cast our own bullets with R&G club equipment. I was given my Dads 1943 Colt 1911a1 that had been tuned to shoot 185gr wadcutters and the only malfunctions I had were with ammo. I have Colt civilian & military, S&W 1911s and 1 RI w/Colt 22 conversion . I have them in .22, 9mm, 38 super, .45 ACP, 9x23 and I'm looking for a Colt 1911 in .40 S&W. Commander and full size. I like 1911s and as I said only malfunctions I have incurred were Magazine or ammo caused. My concealed carry is an M&PC 357 Sig.
SWCA 892

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Larry Vickers and Puller both probably have bigger hands than I do, yet they both make broad pronouncements that seem to ignore that fact. While I lack their experience and know it, they lack my experience and don't know it.

The following pronouncements are true for me, and I don't really care what is true for them.

The 1911 is a classic-weight pistol, which means that it is optimum for bullseye shooting, which is one-handed. This translates well to defensive shooting, as long as the gun is not too heavy to carry. The 1911 is not too heavy to carry - it and a Summer Special are my BEST long-term carry combo.

Glocks are not even in the running. Even if I considered a striker-fired crunchenticker either serious or safe, WHICH I DON'T, the gun does not fit my hand. Why anyone would choose a blocky, sloppy-fitting gun is beyond me. Maybe they fit some folks, but not me.

Most high-cap guns have blocky or excessivel large grip frames. There ARE exceptions, such as second-gen Para-Ord frames, the BHP, and, for me, the M9.

The 1911 is probably the easiest pistol made to detail disassemble. While not the field-strip king by any means, it is certainly acceptable.

It is hard to take seriously someone who recommends high-caps that aren't even usable, and can't carry a slim normal-weight gun like the 1911.

 

[moosedog]

Never heard of this guy but with many states limiting the round capacity to 10 rounds, the 1911 platform is an ideal choice if you train with it.
Every shooting I've seen over the years involving the 45 ACP pretty much made me a believer of its stopping power.

 

[Greyman50]

Guess I was shooting 1911's before Mr. Vickers was born, was in Vietnam before he was born , a NRA instructor before he was born and most likely have fired more rounds than he. Many of us older guys here are in the same boat. Just because some S.F. guy writes a book or 2 and runs some training facility is just that. His opinion is his and he is entitled to it. My opinion is mine based on many, many years of shooting, instructing and using many, many firearms. nuf sed.

 

[geen]

I have owned and shot a 100 differnt pistols and when I shot a 1911 the trigger was better than any of the others. I shoot the best with a 1911 I make sure mine all work well and only carry the ones that have been shot enough to know the will preform when I need them to (any gun can fail). but it comes down to I think I have the best chance of making the shot i need to make with a 1911. I am not sure when Vickers made that statement but today you can spend $1500 on a Dan wesson and get a gun that works perfect right out to the box and for the $3500 you can get Nighthawks and Wilsons and Baers oh My.