1940-50s era military .38 special rounds

[josboy]

Cleaning out a storage area (air conditioned, heated and clean) I found literally a barrel (although in boxes) of mid-1940 to mid 1950s military ammo in 38 special. I've had no issues firing the same vintage .45 ACP cal ammo. Have had no problems with that. So, I put about 100 rounds of the .38 ammo through my revolver with a about 50 rounds of modern stuff mixed in. Amazing - couldn't tell the difference (with one exception - there was evidently issue ammunition of that vintage made with steel cartridges - these weren't very consistent - I've since weeded them out. Have any of you shot any of this very old stuff? Any cautions? Anyone know why the still casing ammo would not have held up as well as the brass casing stuff, (or maybe it was never any good)?

 

[.455_Hunter]

Great find!

Was the ammo the 158 gr FMJ (more "pointed" nose) or the later 130 gr FMJ (hemispherical nose)?

What was the problem with the steel ammo- duds, low velocity? Maybe that batch of primers or powder was not up to snuff.

 

[Abbynormal]

If you find any with red paint on the bullet, save them!!! That's the old WWII Navy/MC tracer/flare ammo. I've been trying to find some more for years.

It works really well.

 

[Lee Jones]

Corrosive ammo?

Is there a chance that some of this ammo is corrosive?
Are the headstamps dated?
If still in boxes collectors might be interested.
The flare/tracer was for aircrews to signal for rescue, so I have read.

Many will know more than I on this subject.

Lee Jones(Celtgun)

 

[josboy]

Great find!

Was the ammo the 158 gr FMJ (more "pointed" nose) or the later 130 gr FMJ (hemispherical nose)?

What was the problem with the steel ammo- duds, low velocity? Maybe that batch of primers or powder was not up to snuff.

While most of the brass ammo was in boxes, the steel stuff was loose. There is nothing on the round which indicates their weight - (or at least nothing I can interpret. I would describe the bullets (clearly "ball" in nature) as pointed rather than truly hemispherical. Some of the steel stuff wouldn't fire and some were probably low velocity, others fired fine, but not consistently. This was USMC issue marked for "M41" (boxes state) and apparently made by Federal.

 

[josboy]

Is there a chance that some of this ammo is corrosive?
Are the headstamps dated?
If still in boxes collectors might be interested.
The flare/tracer was for aircrews to signal for rescue, so I have read.

Many will know more than I on this subject.

Lee Jones(Celtgun)

The head stamps aren't dated. The steel stuff was unboxed but most of the brass rounds are in fresh boxes of 50 shown as "ball" ammo, .38 special for the M41. They were USMC issue manufactured by Federal. Unfortunately, I haven't found anything with any marking that suggests they may be tracer rounds. Obviously, I've had this stuff for a long time.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

One more time please, what is the head stamp on the steel ammo?
I have never heard of or seen US military steel case handgun ammo, but I am prepared to learn.

 

[El Biblioitecario]

I have never heard of or seen US military steel case handgun ammo, but I am prepared to learn.

I have a round of steel cased .45ACP out in my garage. I never thought of it as particularly rare--perhaps because I remember when steel 1943 pennys were still in circulation.

Someone previously asked what the problem was with steel cased ammunition. I recall reading somewhere there was an issue with rounds rusting in tropical climates.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I have a round of steel cased .45ACP out in my garage. I never thought of it as particularly rare--perhaps because I remember when steel 1943 pennys were still in circulation.

Someone previously asked what the problem was with steel cased ammunition. I recall reading somewhere there was an issue with rounds rusting in tropical climates.

Ok. What is the head stamp on your steel case?
And what kind of primer?

 

[Skeetr57]

All of the steel case US ammunition that I have seen has been .45 ACP and dated 1943, loaded by Eau Claire Ordnance Plant. I bought a lot of it in the 1960's for $2.00 a box. It is supposed to be hard on extractors in the 1911 pistols, but I was shooting it in revolvers, so I didn't care. It was all corrosive primed.
The brass cased M41 is later than the Korean war, I think, as I don't think Federal was around back then. If it is M41 ball, it is loaded with 130 gr jacketed bullets, and won't shoot to the sights on a fixed sight .38 special.

 

[Old 44 Guy]

I had a case of 45 ACP years ago, steel cased that worked fine with no problems. Don't remember if it was corrosive or not. EC 43 headstamp. Later on I picked up some 38 Sp. brass cased FMC 130 Gr., don't remember the head stamp but it shot well in our old M&P's. This was in the 1950's National Guard Duty. Wish I had saved some for reference.

 

[THE PILGRIM]

I had a case of 45 ACP years ago, steel cased that worked fine with no problems. Don't remember if it was corrosive or not. EC 43 headstamp. Later on I picked up some 38 Sp. brass cased FMC 130 Gr., don't remember the head stamp but it shot well in our old M&P's. This was in the 1950's National Guard Duty. Wish I had saved some for reference.

A little googling, The EC head stamp is US WWII, Evansville, OH.
Probably pretty rare.
The 130 grain 38 sp is Standard US Military ammo, made by the usual suspects.
I have carried and shot quite a bit of it, reloaded it, probably have a 1000 or so cases out in the garage.

 

[El Biblioitecario]

EC 43 sounds right for the headstamp on my round--it's too hot to go out into the garage and look. I seem to recall all steel case ammunition was made in 1943--as well as the pennys. I hope I'm not confusing the two. As for the primer, I've no idea what kind it is.

Again, I don't see this stuff as exotic, and am bemused at the interest. I have had this round for years and use it as a gage to adust the bullet seating stem on my .45ACP dies.

 

[.455_Hunter]

All of the "M41" marked ammo will be the 130 gr hemispherical FMJ loaded at slightly above BB gun velocity.

 

[Abbynormal]

All of the steel case US ammunition that I have seen has been .45 ACP and dated 1943, loaded by Eau Claire Ordnance Plant. I bought a lot of it in the 1960's for $2.00 a box. It is supposed to be hard on extractors in the 1911 pistols, but I was shooting it in revolvers, so I didn't care. It was all corrosive primed.
The brass cased M41 is later than the Korean war, I think, as I don't think Federal was around back then. If it is M41 ball, it is loaded with 130 gr jacketed bullets, and won't shoot to the sights on a fixed sight .38 special.

It wasn't Eau Claire,or Evansville Oh, it was EVANSVILLE CHRYSLER (EC43) made in Evansville In. Loaded in .45 ACP only!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[breakerofwind]

I have a round of steel cased .45ACP out in my garage. I never thought of it as particularly rare--perhaps because I remember when steel 1943 pennys were still in circulation.

Someone previously asked what the problem was with steel cased ammunition. I recall reading somewhere there was an issue with rounds rusting in tropical climates.

Shortens the life of the extractor in semi-autos...

 

[DWalt]

If it is steel-cased .38 Special GI ammo, you have a great rarity, as I have never seen or heard of any. During WWII there were immense quantities of .45 ACP steel cased ammunition made at the Evansville Ordnance Plant in Evansville, IN. It was operated by the Chrysler Corporation. Headstamps will be either EC 4x or ECS 4x. Those headstamped ECS used cases made at the Sunbeam appliance factory, across town from the Evansville Ordnance Plant.

Most .38 Special ammunition used by the military during WWII was made by Remington and is packed in commercial boxes. The M41 .38 Special round was used in the postwar period, and was not nearly as puny and underpowered as many would have you believe, and in fact its ballistics closely resemble commercial .38 Special loadings. It uses a 130 grain FMJ bullet, with a specification velocity of 950 +/- 45 ft/sec at 15 feet from the muzzle.

The headstamps of your steel cased .38 Special ammunition would be greatly appreciated. Virtually all U. S. .38 Special ammunition made after the early 1920s will have non-corrosive priming.

 

[DWalt]

Shortens the life of the extractor in semi-autos...

Not quite so. That is a semi-myth, and resulted from inadequate packaging of the ammunition early in the war. Cased ammunition was exposed to humid salt air in the Pacific, and the cases rusted in their shipping containers. The cases corroded, and stuck in the chambers. Packaging for shipment was greatly improved, and that largely solved the problem. In the ETO, the corrosion problem was not nearly as severe. There was a full book written about Evansville and steel-cased ammunition called "Bullets by the Billion" and it explains all this in great detail. I have fired many thousands of rounds of EC/ECS steel cased .45 ACP ammunition, and have yet to break my first extractor. I still have a considerable quantity of it.

 

[Muley Gil]

"The headstamps of your steel cased .38 Special ammunition would be greatly appreciated. Virtually all U. S. .38 Special ammunition made after the early 1920s will have non-corrosive priming."

COMMERCIAL US ammo would be non corrosive. .30-06 ammo had corrosive primers. .30 Carbine rounds were loaded with non corrosive primers.

Military .45 ACP from WW II used corrosive primers. Not sure what type of primers would have been used in US military .38 special ammo.

 

[DWalt]

"COMMERCIAL US ammo would be non corrosive. .30-06 ammo had corrosive primers. .30 Carbine rounds were loaded with non corrosive primers."

I specifically stated "Virtually all U. S. .38 Special ammunition made after the early 1920s will have non-corrosive priming." And that is correct. Most U. S. military small arms ammunition was corrosively primed until the early 1950s, the principal exception being that for the .30 Carbine which used non-corrosive priming from the beginning. Additionally, all WWII .38 Special military ammunition was manufactured with non-corrosive priming, as it was essentially commercial ammunition with FMJ bullets.