I have been hearing of loading inverted HBWCs for decades and how they were such a great defense load. IMO if that were the case you would think that every ammo manufacturer would have them in their line up. I suspect that the fact is that they would perform just as Strawhat experienced, dramatic expansion and inadequate penetration.
38 Special wadcutters?
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Back in the 70s there were " Quad loads", 38 Spl. loaded with 4 slant base wadcutters stacked in the case with WC crimp. Our range tested them in 2"-6" revolvers. 6" gave best results with projectiles spreading out to about a 4"-5" circle from 15 yds. Not what was wanted. Dept did not issue any and all Officers we knew wanted 125-158 JHP in 357 Mag.Still have a few around somewhere.
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A 1970s fad of questionable value. There was probably little or no extensive subjective testing done. More of a "conventional wisdom" project.
A fad, yes, but not unacceptable with proven variants. The Federal 130gr HST Micro performs well in short barrels. 12" penetration, expansion upwards of .60 inch. Years ago, Alberts made a 146gr HydroShok which was a reversed HBWC, but had a post in the center. My own water jug tests showed it always penetrating 3 1-gallon jugs, and expanding up to .65-.70 inch. The HST is a +P load, my handloads of the HydroShoks were not.
Holden6v8
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As noted, the upside-down hollow base wadcutter was useful as a very short range SD round. Loaded a bunch for a liquor store owner who didn't want over penetration in his vulnerable little store, but something that would get things done. 3 gr of Bullseye was pretty stout but worked well in appropriate testing....
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The Federal 130 HST? I'm not familiar with it, but it doesn't sound like a 148 gr. HBWC, the topic here. The Alberts bullet with a post, not familiar with that one either. Again, I think the topic was regarding plain cast HBWCs, at least that's what I remember from the '70s, no posts, etc.
I may have overlooked something, but I don't recall ever reading anything regarding extensive objective testing of cast reversed HBWC if it was ever done. It seems most everything was subjective and there wasn't much of it that was comprehensively undertaken.
I may have overlooked something, but I don't recall ever reading anything regarding extensive objective testing of cast reversed HBWC if it was ever done. It seems most everything was subjective and there wasn't much of it that was comprehensively undertaken.
I don't shoot 38 target loads as much as I used to, but I still have over 2,000 38 wadcutter bullets in my loading room. I need to dig them out and take them to a gun show or flea market, but most of the young guys wouldn't know what they are! 
If any of you shoot segmented .22 ammo, I had problems with one brand
that would not expand or that it would send particles flying in all directions
after it hit my target.
Here is a picture of the ammo.
that would not expand or that it would send particles flying in all directions
after it hit my target.
Here is a picture of the ammo.
Before there was the Federal Hydrashok ammo with the post in the nose there was a company called Scorpion who made a reversed wadcutter design .38 with a post in the nose. I believe Federal bought the rights which led to the Hydrashok. At one time I had a couple of boxes of the original. Probably still do somewhere. The attached pictures are off the internet.
I don't recall which but there is one of the major ammo companies selling jacketed reversed HB wadcutters defensive ammo. Loaded hotter than target WCs.
Years ago some of us played with the reversed HBWC. At about 20 yds we started seeing keyholing and accuracy falling off. Using road killed deer we tested for expansion. Anything over 2.5 gr Bullseye we got over expansion and bullet separation. IIRC we loaded to 3.2 gr Bullseye and the parts of the HB that remained, if any did, would totally roll back along the base. Usually the HB would come apart off the base.
I've used quite a few light loaded reversed HBWC on groundhogs, coons, and a few coyotes. Those worked very well. Not something I'd carry as a self defense load.
The problem with WC ammo for defensive use is the squared off end can slow a reload.
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I think the wadcutter makes an excellent range round. It shines best as for making a nice clean hole into a paper target. Also, they are very mild in recoil. As for self defense, the wadcutter appears to be a viable alternative as compared to the standard SD JHP. If you have time, you can do a google search and find lots of articles written on the subject matter. There are lots of forum members here that have extensive knowledge as well. Albeit, you might get different takes but it's always good to know both sides of the coin. As for online articles on the subject of wadcutters for self defense, I really like the website RevolverGuy.Com. They have a hosts of articles that might pique your interest.
StrawHat
Member
If you reload, here is a nice bit of information.
Ed Harris: Revisiting The Full Charge Wadcutter. – www.GrantCunningham.com
Kevin
Ed Harris: Revisiting The Full Charge Wadcutter. – www.GrantCunningham.com
Kevin
.38 Wadcutter sources
Ammoseek.com almost always can steer you to a dealer selling .38 wadcutters-and yes, they're not cheap. However, every now & then, you may get lucky and stumble on a sale or good deal.
Looking back to early Oct., I bought twenty, 50 round boxes, of Geco .38 Spl. 146 gr flatnose/case-flush, lead wadcutters for $17/box + $15 S/H. from shawarms.com
They shoot great out of my S&W 4" M15.
Looking today, the cheapest I see on ammoseek.com is around $25/box for 148Gr. Sellier & Bellot (I like their ammo & have shot plenty of their .38 Spl. roundnose.)
BTW: Would anyone know if the .38 Spl. M15 has a different barrel and cylinder diameter bore than other S&W .38/.357 "K" frames (like the M19) or is the only M15 difference that the cylinder is fractionally shorter so .357's cannot fit the reduced length?
Ammoseek.com almost always can steer you to a dealer selling .38 wadcutters-and yes, they're not cheap. However, every now & then, you may get lucky and stumble on a sale or good deal.
Looking back to early Oct., I bought twenty, 50 round boxes, of Geco .38 Spl. 146 gr flatnose/case-flush, lead wadcutters for $17/box + $15 S/H. from shawarms.com
They shoot great out of my S&W 4" M15.
Looking today, the cheapest I see on ammoseek.com is around $25/box for 148Gr. Sellier & Bellot (I like their ammo & have shot plenty of their .38 Spl. roundnose.)
BTW: Would anyone know if the .38 Spl. M15 has a different barrel and cylinder diameter bore than other S&W .38/.357 "K" frames (like the M19) or is the only M15 difference that the cylinder is fractionally shorter so .357's cannot fit the reduced length?
StrawHat
Member
The barrels have different profiles but the specifications for bore and rifling are the same.
The cylinders, I do not remember if they are different lengths but the chambers are different.
Kevin
I just bought 2 cases of Winchester Super X silver box. It took a while to find them but if you look hard enough, you can find them. They came out to about $0.78 per round. Not cheap anymore for the factory stuff.
Of course off brand re-loads, Magtech, S&B, Fiocchi, etc are much cheaper
Of course off brand re-loads, Magtech, S&B, Fiocchi, etc are much cheaper
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My model 52 wanted me to ask, is there any other kind ?
Skeptic 9c
Member
148 gr .38 Special Wadcutters are extremely available, compared to 185 gr wadcutters for the .45 ACP. I had a few boxes of S&W aka Fiocci 9mm wadcutters that an Army Marksmanship Unit Sergeant used to fire a five shot, one hole group from my Browning Hi Power, target model with adjustable sights. (I was never that good.)
I haven't seen 9mm wadcutters since the 1970s.
Geoff
Who suddenly realizes just how long he has been around.
I haven't seen 9mm wadcutters since the 1970s.
Geoff
Who suddenly realizes just how long he has been around.
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I don't shoot 38 target loads as much as I used to, but I still have over 2,000 38 wadcutter bullets in my loading room. I need to dig them out and take them to a gun show or flea market, but most of the young guys wouldn't know what they are!
Those will fit in a large flat rate box....if it fits it ships! Put them up for sale here while we're all thinking about wadcutters!
I'll admit it, when I first started out 3 years ago I was surprised when I saw wadcutters for the first time too 
and I only shoot revolvers.
and I only shoot revolvers.
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I just shot some today. Sometime ago I ordered some Acme Bullets .41 SWC and had them throw in a 100 piece sample pack of their grooveless 148gr button nose wadcutter. I recently loaded them and shot them today. But like all the bullets I buy there always seems to be one that doesn't want to cooperate.
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