I love 'em, just takes a bit more care to load the chambers.
Haven't seen any for sale in a while.
Haven't seen any for sale in a while.
38 Special wadcutters?
- Thread starter Joezilla
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Back in the 80's and early 90's , I shot a boatload of .38 Spcl wadcutters . They sure did lead up the barrels of my guns though . I bought one of those Lewis Lead Removers to clean them . It worked pretty well .
UNCLE PAULY
Member
Sorry - Picture from 2014
10 yards standing offhand 1960 M36
10 yards standing offhand 1960 M36
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Wadcutters can be.....
Wadcutters can be seated flush. Some I've reloaded have a groove and I seat them to put a light crimp in the groove. Any seating that works is acceptable.
Wadcutters can be seated flush. Some I've reloaded have a groove and I seat them to put a light crimp in the groove. Any seating that works is acceptable.
A 38 special, 148 gr lead HBWC can have a OAL of 1.155" all the way out to 1.31"
if it is of the BBwc 141gr 358495, button top, design.
With a revolver, one can play with a longer OAL with these lead bullets
to see if they might give better groups.
However, with the P52 pistol, most need the short OAL to feed and eject properly
with the light powder loads, used, to get maximum fps, from the light charges
that make a pound of powder last a lot longer, if one rolls their own.
if it is of the BBwc 141gr 358495, button top, design.
With a revolver, one can play with a longer OAL with these lead bullets
to see if they might give better groups.
However, with the P52 pistol, most need the short OAL to feed and eject properly
with the light powder loads, used, to get maximum fps, from the light charges
that make a pound of powder last a lot longer, if one rolls their own.
When I got my first handgun, a Model 19, I shot a lot of 38 wadcutters. The dealer I got the gun from sold reloaded wadcutters for about $2.00 a box of 50. No idea who loaded them, they were just loose in a generic box. I can't remember if I traded in my brass or not, but someone mentioned that and it rang a bell, so I probably did.
Eventually I got a Lee Loader and started reloading my own. I bought Zero (brand) wadcutters 500 to a box. A can of Bullseye went a long way. I scrounged brass wherever I could find it. Primers were the big expense, and I forget how much they were. I'd load 100, shoot 100, and start over. Always seated the bullet flush with the case mouth. That's the way the ones I bought were, that's what I did.
I did try that reverse HBWC trick. It wasn't scientific, but they sure made an impressive hole in a bank of Virginia red clay.
I think I could have put my fist in there.
I've gone back to shooting wadcutters again. I use Berrys HBWC now though. No exposed lead at the indoor range. They seem to shoot just fine with the standard charge of Bullseye. I don't use the Lee Loader anymore, but I still have it. Never know when you might need it.
Eventually I got a Lee Loader and started reloading my own. I bought Zero (brand) wadcutters 500 to a box. A can of Bullseye went a long way. I scrounged brass wherever I could find it. Primers were the big expense, and I forget how much they were. I'd load 100, shoot 100, and start over. Always seated the bullet flush with the case mouth. That's the way the ones I bought were, that's what I did.
I did try that reverse HBWC trick. It wasn't scientific, but they sure made an impressive hole in a bank of Virginia red clay.
I think I could have put my fist in there.
I've gone back to shooting wadcutters again. I use Berrys HBWC now though. No exposed lead at the indoor range. They seem to shoot just fine with the standard charge of Bullseye. I don't use the Lee Loader anymore, but I still have it. Never know when you might need it.
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No offense taken. I'm familiar with all those but for the purposes of making a point I left out the long-gone models and the oddballs.
Then there's the .38 AMU...
shovelhead
Member
I was given around 200 rounds of .38 wad cutters from a retired police officer probably twenty years ago. I specifically use those when I acquire a new revolver for the initial range day to see how it performs. Getting low now…..
I hear you. The lack of availability of wadcutters—not to mention the outrageous price when I did come across them—was what finally motivated me to finally start reloading a decade or so ago.
Targets Guy
US Veteran
Wadcutters. What's not to like.
rimfireshooter
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They are rounds designed for target shooting (they make a cleaner hole, which is advantageous, as shots touching the line will count for the higher score). I have shot many of them. They are typically designed to be lighter recoil.
I agree that they are ment to used for target work, in the fact that they do leave a nice round hole that is easy to score, on paper targets.
However you do see data and gel test, that some shooters think will work for them
in the guns that they are using and the recoil and results of this ammo.
Over the years I have found that a HBwc will give me the BEST accuracy out of my snub nose to 6" barrels in my revolvers.
As noted, they are getting hard to find and I now save my HB and am shooting the BBwc style, in my revolvers, that comes close to the HB in accuracy.
Both styles need to be tested to see which you prefer, if you can find them.
I also shoot the lighter 125 lead TC or RN lead bullet for extra light recoil loads
that has minimum recoil in a 16oz J frame , with a 600fps loading.
Factory stuff runs around 800fps in their "Cowboy" ammo.
Tight groups.
However you do see data and gel test, that some shooters think will work for them
in the guns that they are using and the recoil and results of this ammo.
Over the years I have found that a HBwc will give me the BEST accuracy out of my snub nose to 6" barrels in my revolvers.
As noted, they are getting hard to find and I now save my HB and am shooting the BBwc style, in my revolvers, that comes close to the HB in accuracy.
Both styles need to be tested to see which you prefer, if you can find them.
I also shoot the lighter 125 lead TC or RN lead bullet for extra light recoil loads
that has minimum recoil in a 16oz J frame , with a 600fps loading.
Factory stuff runs around 800fps in their "Cowboy" ammo.
Tight groups.
Charlie Foxtrott
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Our PD had a Star reloading machine and our Auxiliary officers would cast wadcutters for the reloading process. We had a 55 gallon drum filled with loaded WC rounds. You could scoop them out with a coffee can and shoot until your gun was filthy. In an effort of maximum economy the rounds were loaded so lightly that you could actually see the bullet traveling downrange to the target!
rockquarry
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I wound up with six boxes of the Winchester .38 wadcutter ammo with the the purchase of a Model 52 some years ago, but the boxes are older than those in your photo. I was disappointed in the accuracy. My handloads using an H&G#50 and Bullseye powder were more accurate, something I would never expect. Perhaps I got a bad batch of the Winchester ammo.
The "fad" of loading wadcutters upside down wasn't so much a "fad", as a rather clever idea-------for enhancing their use as defense loads. The enhancement arises from the fact they were talking about (AND USING) hollow BASE wadcutters--------which upside down are now hollow POINT bullets. And as an aside, I'll go so far as to suggest they were loaded a bit warmer than my favorite Bullseye load of 2.7 grains---and their bullets were cast considerably softer than might be otherwise be the case.
All in all, it was a pretty sneaky idea.
Ralph Tremaine
As another aside, the hot set-up back in the days of Bullseye competition, was to empty your piggybank into a box along with your gun, and send it off to THE gunsmiths of the day. The gun came back with the cylinder the same length as a wadcutter cartridge, and a made to order barrel which was set back to meet the cylinder---as in ZERO throat length. That was immediately decried as "NO FAIR!!"---at least until you get one of your own---and at least have a chance of winning.
All in all, it was a pretty sneaky idea.
Ralph Tremaine
As another aside, the hot set-up back in the days of Bullseye competition, was to empty your piggybank into a box along with your gun, and send it off to THE gunsmiths of the day. The gun came back with the cylinder the same length as a wadcutter cartridge, and a made to order barrel which was set back to meet the cylinder---as in ZERO throat length. That was immediately decried as "NO FAIR!!"---at least until you get one of your own---and at least have a chance of winning.
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A few things in this discussion have not yet been mentioned:
You've got to keep your head about you when you are loading soft swaged HBWC, especially if you are feeling crafty and loading them upside down. The bullets are not "tough" in comparison to any jacketed bullet with a gilding metal and they are not "tough" when compared to virtually ANY cast lead bullet. The target HBWC is typically made from soft lead wire forced through a die not at all unlike the Play-Doh factory some of us played with as kids, or with your kids or Grandkids if you are of a particular age.
As such, these bullets are quite specifically designed around a speed envelope of 700-800 fps and bad things can happen when you blatantly ignore that.
A hollow base wadcutter with too heavy a charge can blow the core right out of the bullet leaving a full-caliber lead ring. If you are lucky, it will leave this ring in your cartridge case.
If you are unlucky, it will leave this ring in your bore. If you are further unlucky and have no idea that it has happened, you may see catastrophic failure if you take the next shot with this obstruction.
As an avid hobbyist handloader, I certainly love to experiment, but the experience and knowledge of others who have seen some of these experiments go awry is information, data and test results that are to be ignored by only the foolish.
As for inverting wadcutters for possible defensive use, it would be my position that something viable or valuable with 1978 technology may not be the miracle answer in 2023 with current bullet technology and availability.
If you venture in to these places, please report your findings. And for anyone who has, shoots, loads for and loves a Model 52 pistol, do note that Clark Custom currently offers a newly manufactured replacement barrel for the Model 52, which might come in handy if you bulge your barrel playing antiquated tricks with old-tech bullets in a pistol not made in more than 30 years. FWIW, Clark may also be able to help you replace a revolver barrel if you bulge one of those in a similar adventure.
In either case, bring your wallet.
You've got to keep your head about you when you are loading soft swaged HBWC, especially if you are feeling crafty and loading them upside down. The bullets are not "tough" in comparison to any jacketed bullet with a gilding metal and they are not "tough" when compared to virtually ANY cast lead bullet. The target HBWC is typically made from soft lead wire forced through a die not at all unlike the Play-Doh factory some of us played with as kids, or with your kids or Grandkids if you are of a particular age.
As such, these bullets are quite specifically designed around a speed envelope of 700-800 fps and bad things can happen when you blatantly ignore that.
A hollow base wadcutter with too heavy a charge can blow the core right out of the bullet leaving a full-caliber lead ring. If you are lucky, it will leave this ring in your cartridge case.
If you are unlucky, it will leave this ring in your bore. If you are further unlucky and have no idea that it has happened, you may see catastrophic failure if you take the next shot with this obstruction.
As an avid hobbyist handloader, I certainly love to experiment, but the experience and knowledge of others who have seen some of these experiments go awry is information, data and test results that are to be ignored by only the foolish.
As for inverting wadcutters for possible defensive use, it would be my position that something viable or valuable with 1978 technology may not be the miracle answer in 2023 with current bullet technology and availability.
If you venture in to these places, please report your findings. And for anyone who has, shoots, loads for and loves a Model 52 pistol, do note that Clark Custom currently offers a newly manufactured replacement barrel for the Model 52, which might come in handy if you bulge your barrel playing antiquated tricks with old-tech bullets in a pistol not made in more than 30 years. FWIW, Clark may also be able to help you replace a revolver barrel if you bulge one of those in a similar adventure.
In either case, bring your wallet.
max503
Member
Some people feel they are totally effective self-defense rounds, especially out of small hide-out guns.
I might be wrong, but i think wadcutters are perfect for bringing some fairness into a self defense situation. Giving your opponent the opportunity to kill you and your family despite you hit him 6 times.
Yes, even .22 subsonic "can" kill a major pig under best conditions.
But you need something which not only "can", but _will_ disable the threat as instantly as possible.
And these are certainly no wadcutter loads.
Yes, even .22 subsonic "can" kill a major pig under best conditions.
But you need something which not only "can", but _will_ disable the threat as instantly as possible.
And these are certainly no wadcutter loads.
But you need something which not only "can", but _will_ disable the threat as instantly as possible.[/QUOTE]
Well a .50 cal. BAR will come pretty close.
But the reason many of us who carried a .38 J frame for a living like the 148 gr. wadcutter is because with a 1.8" barrel and gutter sights, a instinctive fast tight group was necessary. The "hot" loads of the day would produce a extreme muzzle flash, not helpful working night shift. Yes there are numerous self defense loads now made for short barrels. There were none fifty years ago.
We made due with what was available. Personally even today I'm quite comfortable with five wadcutters stuffed in my 442 or 36. I know how well I can group in a point shoot situation.
Well a .50 cal. BAR will come pretty close.
But the reason many of us who carried a .38 J frame for a living like the 148 gr. wadcutter is because with a 1.8" barrel and gutter sights, a instinctive fast tight group was necessary. The "hot" loads of the day would produce a extreme muzzle flash, not helpful working night shift. Yes there are numerous self defense loads now made for short barrels. There were none fifty years ago.
We made due with what was available. Personally even today I'm quite comfortable with five wadcutters stuffed in my 442 or 36. I know how well I can group in a point shoot situation.
