Major 2
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What would the box for an S prefix 1946 S&W M&P 38 revolver have been?
The gun shipped in Nov.
The gun shipped in Nov.
1946 M&P box
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I believe the original box would have been a two piece gold box with blue printing on it.
1946 was the transition year for boxing K frames. I do not beileve that blue boxes were used that early. Both the Maroon and black two piece riveted boxes were introduced in 1946. This was also the year that gold boxes started to appear for K frames. Could there have been some left-over pre-WWII guns used post-war, absolutely, since S&W has always been a "don't throw it away" company.
Late 1946 would make a two-piece maroon or black box a most likely candidate for an early "S" series revolver.
Late 1946 would make a two-piece maroon or black box a most likely candidate for an early "S" series revolver.
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OP
Major 2
Member
Anybody's guess on what the ship date of a specific "S" series revolver would have been and only a factory letter would give you the correct answer. A couple examples, S868XXX shipped in November 1946 and S871XXX shipped in November 1947.
larryofcc
Member
According to the book, it would have been the maroon 2 piece box. At least my 6-5-46 M&P is in a maroon 2 piece box. My 2" M&P was shipped in 1947 and is in a numbered to the gun, gold box. I think the gold boxes started in 1947. I have a couple 1948 M&P's in numbered to the gun, gold boxes. Big Larry
OLDSTER
Member
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It has been claimed that the gold box was introduced the same year as the Masterpiece line to give the package kind of an upgraded look. The Masterpiece line was introduced in 1946. It was later used on M&P models, maybe as early as 1947, but maroon boxes show up on M&Ps as late as 1950. Supica states that both the gold and maroon box were introduced in 1946. He also states that the maroon boxes ran until 1975, while gold boxes were phased out in 1965. It is an era where a real hodgepodge of boxes were used.
S9034xx shipped on April 25, 1947.
larryofcc
Member
Little different maroon box
Here's another box for ID.
Just purchased of this Forum a one piece maroon box with the hinge that is NOT, I say, not, shown in Supicas book. It is not a picture box and has the colored label for a 4" blue, M&P.
It resembles the 2 piece maroon, but has the tape hinge and the writing inside in English and Spanish. I have not received the box yet so I have no further info.
Would this box be correct for a 1935 vintage M&P? Thanks, Big Larry
Here's another box for ID.
Just purchased of this Forum a one piece maroon box with the hinge that is NOT, I say, not, shown in Supicas book. It is not a picture box and has the colored label for a 4" blue, M&P.
It resembles the 2 piece maroon, but has the tape hinge and the writing inside in English and Spanish. I have not received the box yet so I have no further info.
Would this box be correct for a 1935 vintage M&P? Thanks, Big Larry
I believe you are referring to what is often called a clamshell box or patent box. The box should have a 45 cut on both ends of the interior liner to make is easier to close and open the box. Look on page 52 of SCSW4 at the bottom of the page. I did some research on early pre-war boxes and this one pretty much ran from the mid-1920s up to WWII.
The patent date on these boxes pre-date their use by a few years. Patent date was December 28, 1920, but there is no evidence that the box was introduced until around 1926.
I did a study on early K frame boxes up to WWII and is below.
The patent date on these boxes pre-date their use by a few years. Patent date was December 28, 1920, but there is no evidence that the box was introduced until around 1926.
I did a study on early K frame boxes up to WWII and is below.
Attachments
larryofcc
Member
It does not have the 45 degree cuts. Same box, no 45 degree cuts. Just like the later maroon box, but has the tape holding the top on. Confusing? Thanks, Big Larry
Take some pictures of the hinge when you get it. Might have been a two-piece maroon box that someone added the hinge?? Check to see if it has a thumb slot in the front of the lid?
S842463 shipped March 1947 (yet another birthyear gun), but no box here...
...Ben
...Ben
Major 2
The first postwar S prefix M&Ps shipped in maroon two piece boxes, starting in February, 1946. The earliest gold boxes I've recorded show up in the S834000 range in August, 1946. Maroon boxes were intermixed with the gold boxes for a short while thereafter. However, I have never found an M&P that shipped in a maroon box in 1947, and there are more than 14,000 entries in my database. I do not know of any black boxes in use for .38 M&P revolvers at any time in the 1940s.
It is very likely your November, 1946 shipment used a gold box. I have a 6" M&P in my collection in its original gold box and it shipped in November, 1946.
The first postwar S prefix M&Ps shipped in maroon two piece boxes, starting in February, 1946. The earliest gold boxes I've recorded show up in the S834000 range in August, 1946. Maroon boxes were intermixed with the gold boxes for a short while thereafter. However, I have never found an M&P that shipped in a maroon box in 1947, and there are more than 14,000 entries in my database. I do not know of any black boxes in use for .38 M&P revolvers at any time in the 1940s.
It is very likely your November, 1946 shipment used a gold box. I have a 6" M&P in my collection in its original gold box and it shipped in November, 1946.
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So this is one of the oddities of the period. Your example has a 4" barrel. Most of the units found in the S868000 range had the 2" barrel, and ship dates are all over the map. The earliest recorded ship date is in January, 1947, while the latest was in September, 1947. I have not found any that shipped in 1946.
There were some 4" and 6" barrel units in that serial range, but predicting the ship date of those simply cannot be done without a records search.
Not sure what you are saying, but are you referring to 2" and 4" guns not shipping until 1947? If so, there are several examples of both barrel lengths shipping in 1946.
Jack has said pretty much the same thing as I did earlier, but the maroon box was used until the mid-1970s according to Supica, so it was out there for some purpose for some time. Over the years I have seen several "S" series M&Ps and Masterpiece revolvers shown in maroon boxes. Did not pay attention to ship dates, but several guns in the SWCA database show these boxes mixed in during production information. I have also seen post-war M&Ps in clamshell/patent boxes as well, so exact transition/introduction dates is not a certainty. Think about rooms at the factory full of boxes for all frame sizes, colors, barrel lengths, models, and eras. Did the company try to use up everything they could, old and new, before standardizing on the currently available box, absolutely! Database and my records list box type for several "S" entries and they are below:
824XXX Maroon
825XXX Maroon
852XXX Gold
862XXX Gold
876XXX Gold
582XXX Pre-War hinged Box
895XXX Maroon
As for ship dates, they cannot be defined in the "S" series revolvers since it is apparent that inventories remained high throughout the 3 years of production. An 880XXX revolver was shipped in 1953 and S1000000 shipped in September 1949.
Approximate turn-over was as follows:
1946 <855XXX
1947 855XXX to 960XXX
1948 960XXX to 999XXX
1949 Late 999XXX to 1000000
There remains a large overlap of serial numbers when transitioning from one year to the next.
larryofcc
Member
My # S-819469, shipped 6-5-46 is a 6" M&P shipped to the Mershon Co. in Los Angeles. It now resides in a 2 piece maroon box with the colored label. The box is numbered #S-820963 which is pretty close to the gun number. Big Larry
No, Gary.
What I wrote was: Most of the units found in the S868000 range had the 2" barrel, and ship dates are all over the map. The earliest recorded ship date is in January, 1947, while the latest was in September, 1947. I have not found any that shipped in 1946.
The context should make it clear. I have not found any in the S868000 serial range that shipped in 1946.
