1st Model Safety Hammerless problems

[pharmer]

I am so out of my element with this one. It has a 606xx ser#, brown plastic grips about 90+% blue and when I ran a patch through it, it came out clean. Problem is that the trigger does not reset and the firing pin is stuck in the forward position. I soaked it in "Action Blaster and later BreakFree hoping it was just gunked. Something is broken. I took off the stud and screw (The stud slot was already buggered when I got it) but the sideplate will not pop off. Since this is a 100+y/o gun, I figure I just got a $75 lesson in "paying attention." Anybody have any ideas? The cylinder cycles perfectly, ejects, and the bore is perfect. Joe

 

[H Richard]

That side plate will come off. Let is soak in Kroil a day or two around the side plate edges, and drip some inside also where it will work into the side plate edges. Then with a small "wooden" hammer handle, ( I use a one on my 2 oz ball-peen hammer), give the gun a good wack on the inside edge of the grip frame, on the side of the side plate. It may take quite a few wacks, but it will gradually lift up and loose and you may remove it. I had a similar problem with a .32 Safety Hammerless 3rd mod. dating to 1921. The firing pin was broken and I needed to replace it. Then I learned I could do it without removing the side plate. Well got a good cleaning of really old dried up oil turned to near tar.

 

[pharmer]

Thanks for your reply HRichard. I got the sideplate off today. Nothing broken, no rust or gunk. I am enjoying this lesson but I am not a gunsmith so my skills are limited. I figure the trigger is reset by the top of the trigger hook, otherwise the rebound mechanism is broken. The firing pin is in the "forward" position and will not budge no matter what I try. The pin that retains it is buggered as is the one holding the trigger in place. The stud that holds the sideplate is also buggered so this gun has been worked on before (I have done no further damage. Here's a pic (Sorry I can't take a clear pic if my life depended on it) of the insides. I buttoned it back up after I took it. Thanks again. Joe

 

[DCWilson]

This is the point at which I would take the barrel and cylinder off and throw the frame into a small loaf pan with an inch of penetrating oil in the bottom. Wrap foil over the top and set it aside for a month. I bet the pins will come out the next time you try them.

I suppose the trigger return spring could be broken or frozen in place inside the frame where you can't see it. If you can get this completely apart, you should be able to get replacement parts. Except for the one called the split spring, which is mounted on top of the trigger return spring. It's almost impossible to find one of those if you have a broken one. And I have never completely understood what they do. Something with the hammer fall, I think.

 

[pharmer]

Thanks David. No, I can't get this completely apart. I'm limited in skill. It is a nice example of a late 19th century S&W. The bore and charge holes look almost unused. Broken firing pins are common on this model and supposedly easy (drifting the pin out and removing and replacing through the recoil shield) to fix. I'll probably take it to the next Orlando show and sell it with full disclosure of issues. The brown rubber grips are the first I've seen, they are usually black. Most I can lose is $75. Joe

 

[DCWilson]

I believe the brown or even tan hard rubber grips are actually faded black grips. I had one set of grimy but well preserved black grips that I tried to clean with warm water and gentle detergent; though the grime went away, the grips ended up with a definite brownish cast to them. I used to think the black was spread evenly throughout the material of hard rubber stocks, but now I think it is more like a dip or solid sealer that was applied to the stocks after they came out of the mold. But I don't know. If anybody knows the manufacturing process for old plastics, I'd be happy to hear about it.

On second thought, maybe the color is consistent throughout the stocks, but oils and solvents from years of handling and cleaning weaken the color at the surface and let it wash or wear off the surface of the stocks.

 

[H Richard]

I had some brown ones, and from a gun that sat in the sun and we determined they had faded due to the long time in the sunlight. That interior looks really dry. I would follow Dave's recommendation of letting it sit in a soak of kroil (or other penetrating oil) for a month. Not much to lose.

 

[pooka]

Hi, I have a related question, Is the firing pin rebounding? It looks like the hammer bears against it? thanks, Mark

 

[bobsdad]

I believe these old grips were made from a high sulphur rubber compound, sometimes called gutta percha. If exposed to certain solvents, sunlight (for long periods of time), or electro magnetic waves (for long periods of time), the sulphur, oil or other chemicals in the rubber compound can "bloom" out turning the grips a dull brown. Use of a silicone based polish or lubricant may restore the black color. There is also a thread on this forum that discussed that.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-an...od-restore-color-black-hard-rubber-grips.html

 

[Dosgatos]

Hi, I have a related question, Is the firing pin rebounding? It looks like the hammer bears against it? thanks, Mark

The firing pin rebounds on a small spring. My guess on this one is that it is either rusted in place, the spring is broken and has jammed the pin, or the pin itself is broken and has jammed in its housing. If the pin holding the firing pin bushing can be drifted out, then one can dry-fire the gun until the the firing pin bushing (which contains the sring and firing pin) is driven out of the recoil shield. Of course, you have to get the gun to a point at which it will dry-fire, or you can't get the firing pin bushing out.

 

[pharmer]

Thanks again for all the replies. I just don't think I am willing to invest any more time and money into a gun I probably will never shoot. I haven't checked availability of parts but I do remember being at a local gunshop when a gangbanger came in for "bullets" for his Clerke First. They turned the shop upside down and found an old box with 20 cartridges and happily sold them to said "citizen" for $30. I certainly have learned a great deal from this not so great deal. Joe