2020 Python vs 686

[Andyd]

Outliers don't debunk statistical averages; they do remind us that only preparing for the likeliest events is a gamble, albeit one of the safer ones.

So the Sig P229 is a bullseye gun?

Having lived in dangerous Third World countries and having experienced violence first hand, I do not gamble and learnt that no two fights are the same, your first hand experience may differ. Besides that, I have not met anyone who excelled at defensive shooting that wasn't an allround good shot and had learnt the basics of pistolcraft first.

 

[Hapworth]

Having lived in dangerous Third World countries and having experienced violence first hand, I do not gamble and learnt that no two fights are the same, your first hand experience may differ. Besides that, I have not met anyone who excelled at defensive shooting that wasn't an allround good shot and had learnt the basics of pistolcraft first.

We all gamble every day.

Otherwise, I agree with you here.

My original point was that the "15'" assertion regarding civilian self-defense shooting is not "internet lore", nor does the Fort Worth church shooting "debunk" it, nor is a bullseye pistol or bullseye skills required for it.

But I'm all for increasing all skill sets across a variety or conditions...

 

[runscott]

Having lived in dangerous Third World countries and having experienced violence first hand, I do not gamble and learnt that no two fights are the same, your first hand experience may differ. Besides that, I have not met anyone who excelled at defensive shooting that wasn't an allround good shot and had learnt the basics of pistolcraft first.

I often wonder what a "good shot" is. I see really tight groups posted by you all from 25 yards. When I go to the range I shoot at least a couple of cylinders of DA .357 at 25', fairly fast, and usually get all in the black. That's my self-protection practice. The rest of the time is spent shooting more slowly at a 50' target, also .357 or .38 DA. I am still at the point where I would not be very useful if it came to 50', but it's improving. I use the targets like what you get with the old Colts.

 

[Engine49guy]

I would choose the 686-5 Mountain gun
Lifetime warranty vs 1 year warranty.
7 shots vs 6
686 MG is Lighter than Mod 66
Python weighs same as 5" Mod 629 classic.
SW will still be making revolvers in 5 years.

 

[ladder13]

Like Rossi did?

Don’t think a GP100 will shoot any better.

 

[BigBill]

My ‘75 colt python 357/6” could ping small rocks on the 100 yd berm. I could make pin point shots at 100 yds. I was with my wife’s bil he’s a Leo and was in shock. All six shots hit the rock. With my 140 gr reloads. This gun always shot high at 25 yds. It was new never sighted in. I figured for ha’s ha’s I’d take it out to 100 yds. I regret selling it to start a business.

Colt does claim a 200+ yard range,

Colt Python - Wikipedia

The gun manufacturers use different grades of steel. I ran some 125 gr jhp hot loads around 1600 FPS and my python ate them. I wonder what grades of steel colt, ruger and s&w are using?

 

[Andyd]

I often wonder what a "good shot" is. I see really tight groups posted by you all from 25 yards. When I go to the range I shoot at least a couple of cylinders of DA .357 at 25', fairly fast, and usually get all in the black. That's my self-protection practice. The rest of the time is spent shooting more slowly at a 50' target, also .357 or .38 DA. I am still at the point where I would not be very useful if it came to 50', but it's improving. I use the targets like what you get with the old Colts.

I started target shooting after the military and we shot at 25 meters at ISSF targets with one-on-one coaching. The ten ring is two inches and the nine ring is four inches.
Shooters that can reliably shoot above a 9-ring average were rare and are not getting more plentiful. Those that could shoot above 85% were the guys that I met at the matches. In the last year I have seen about half a dozen shooters bringing handgun targets out to 25 yards - and I go shooting several times a week, following a training plan for accuracy and speed, as well.

Had the internet existed in my competing days, I would have been devastated and discouraged by all the 25 yard 2 inch groups, shot rapid fire at 25 yards, with a snubnosed .22 WMR with fixed sights and in complete darkness, with just a flashlight as the only source of illumination in the weak hand .

 

[dmthomp32]

I started target shooting after the military and we shot at 25 meters at ISSF targets with one-on-one coaching. The ten ring is two inches and the nine ring is four inches.

Shooters that can reliably shoot above a 9-ring average were rare and are not getting more plentiful. Those that could shoot above 85% were the guys that I met at the matches. In the last year I have seen about half a dozen shooters bringing handgun targets out to 25 yards - and I go shooting several times a week, following a training plan for accuracy and speed, as well.



Had the internet existed in my competing days, I would have been devastated and discouraged by all the 25 yard 2 inch groups, shot rapid fire at 25 yards, with a snubnosed .22 WMR with fixed sights and in complete darkness, with just a flashlight as the only source of illumination in the weak hand .

That's priceless. I'm sure that is likely true. I try to shoot every two weeks, knowing full well it isn't enough. Every time I go, I'm shocked but what I see. One out of 15, might shoot better than me and I am not a bullseye shooter or competition shooter, my indoor groups at 25 yards are in the 5-7" range depending upon what I shoot. Last week when I was at the range I was shooting alongside a police officer (plain clothes but full utility belt/holster on his side). He was laying down shooting prone at 25 yards and he was shooting easily 12-14" groups on a silhouette target. I'm not sure if it's easier or more difficult shooting prone but he made my DW Guardian and I feel good!

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[4506517]

Anyone checked the price on a new HK SP5?

Its going REGULARLY for almost double MSRP.

Why? Because it hasn't been available for a long time.

Colt is asking and people are paying.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You guys can debate hand fitting, craftsmanship, blah blah blah, it isn't worth it all day long (and apparently do).

If Colt asks for it, people pay it, that's called capitalism.

??????

 

[Chukar60]

Meh
Another bottle of snake oil.
Production grade revolver with pricing placed strategically between a commodity product and a custom gun. Colt is praying nostalgia and hype will cover the margin.
Thus far the strategy appears to be working.

 

[runscott]

Had the internet existed in my competing days, I would have been devastated and discouraged by all the 25 yard 2 inch groups, shot rapid fire at 25 yards, with a snubnosed .22 WMR with fixed sights and in complete darkness, with just a flashlight as the only source of illumination in the weak hand .

After this discussion ended yesterday, I got curious and pulled out my Ed McGivern book. There were some targets using just flashlight illumination. It was crazy what he could do.

 

[runscott]

Anyone checked the price on a new HK SP5?

Its going REGULARLY for almost double MSRP.

Why? Because it hasn't been available for a long time.

Colt is asking and people are paying.

Why is this so hard to understand?

You guys can debate hand fitting, craftsmanship, blah blah blah, it isn't worth it all day long (and apparently do).

If Colt asks for it, people pay it, that's called capitalism.

??????

Yes, it entertains us. The fact that you are reading this means that you are getting entertained as well, I hope.

 

[Valmet]

Personally, I’d take a 686 over a Colt Python every day of the week.

 

[BAM-BAM]

The Python dominated the U.S. bullseye scene back in the day and there was a simple reason for it.

Bullseye shooting "back in the day" was all one handed single action

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

This is an interesting hobby because we all like different stuff. A lot of folks see a Colt revolver and their eyes glaze over and they have got to have it if only for the brand. The S&W fires bullets and functions exactly as the COLT, but it is not a COLT and fewer folks will buy it only because it is an S&W. Though they are functionally identical, years down the road, the Colt will sell for more than the comparable S&W because of the "Colt Mystique" its followers have. If you cannot tell, I only own S&W and Ruger revolvers.

 

[malph]

Bullseye shooting "back in the day" was all one handed single action

This is a great point. When people started shooting revolvers DA more, the Smith's started to dominate.

The Smith DA trigger was just better. So for law enforcement, action shooters and such, the Smith was the better revolver.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Though they are functionally identical, years down the road, the Colt will sell for more than the comparable S&W because of the "Colt Mystique" its followers have. If you cannot tell, I only own S&W and Ruger revolvers.

While they do the same thing; they don't function identically. IIRC the
Colt cylinders even rotate in the wrong direction.

The .357 Python was always the COOoooool Kid's gun.... to look at... and lately to kill Zombies with....

But S&W was and still is the COOooooolest .44magnum in the world; the Colt Anaconda a bit of a dog on the market.....the Diamondback was cool but couldn't match the 19 in versatility.

Smith .357s came in more flavors ......... K L and N..........; N-frame 27s are right up there in price...... and pre-war Reg. Magnums are the priciest of all.

Police work was dominated by the S&W N frame .357, 27s and 28s for 30-40 years ( Colt offered a .357 New Service before the war)..... and they couldn't make 66s fast enough!!!!!!

The best of both worlds would be a .357 L-frame 686 "Smolt"

 

[andyo5]

As I recall, there once was a cottage industry putting Colt barrels on S&W revolvers. Best of both worlds.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I would choose the 686-5 Mountain gun
Lifetime warranty vs 1 year warranty.
7 shots vs 6
686 MG is Lighter than Mod 66
Python weighs same as 5" Mod 629 classic.
SW will still be making revolvers in 5 years.

Kinda like mine....Doesn't have the woodpecker hole in the sideplate.

 

[UncleEd]

This is a great point. When people started shooting revolvers DA more, the Smith's started to dominate.

The Smith DA trigger was just better. So for law enforcement, action shooters and such, the Smith was the better revolver.

Just watched a Jerry Miculek video in which
he shot a 686 and a Python. Naturally he
shot the Smith superbly and he did so as
well with the older nickeled Python.

But he short-stroked the Colt on the first
trigger try and started over. He complained
that as usual the Python with its V-spring
has a softer, slower trigger return which
necessitates taking the finger off the trigger.

The video was made well before the Python
2020 was introduced this year but I believe
the new Python still "suffers" from the soft,
slower trigger reset.