215gr SWC 44 Special loads for my 44 Magnum pair?

Diesel Kilgore

Diesel Kilgore

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I'd like to use a 215gr cast SWC load for my Ruger SBH and Marlin 1894. Something well rounded but comfortable to shoot and could be used for woods defense.

With my guns I know I can really go hot, but I want something that can be easy to shoot in the revolver and get an added bonus in the carbine.

I'm thinking 15,000-21,000 on the pressure side to stay comfortable and accurate.

I have scoured my data books and Brian Pearce, but can't come up with anything, although I have some ideas.

I've got 700x, HP38 and Bullseye to work with and I don't mind loading Special or Magnum cases, either would be fine.

Thanks for any help.
 
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Diesel: 215 grain is a great bullet in 44. I shoot a 215 grain and a 240 SWC in a 4" 69 44 with 8.0 grains of Power pistol both doing 1,000fps. The 215 a little higher and the 240 a bit lower. Shoot them in a 44 Spl case and accuracy is superb.

Just purchased a 44 Mag carbine and the load mentioned above shoots tight one hole groups at 25 yds off hand in the carbine. Carbine is a Browning 92 and has a 20" barrel. Load should be doing 1200 or so out of the little long gun. Check Brian Pearces notes on this load. Low pressure, less than 16K PSI and very accurate. In Mag cases bump it up to 8.5 grains.

Been using this load after reading about in in Handloader several years ago.
 
Mike Ventorino some time back did an article on shooting 44 spl using the Keith bullet , HG 503 or Lyman 429421 ( 245gr) . I realize that you are wanting to shoot a lighter bullet .
Mike recommended 6.5grs of IMR 700X for approx 950fps . I have tried his load and it is a winner . That load will work fine with your lighter weight 215 gr bullet , same load using bullseye , red dot . I think that 7-7.5 grs of HP-38 would also work , given the parameters you have stated . Those loads will be on the upper end of what you asked for . You can drop back at least a full grain if you want less .
 
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Thanks for all the great help.

cowboy4evr,

The loads you mentioned from Venturino are right in line with my Speer #8, which is very helpful. It happens to be the only manual I have that has any data for a 215 or 240gr SWC with Bullseye and 700x....HP38/WW231 not around in 1970? Anyways, I usually like to cross check anything from that Speer #8 just to be safe.

I'm definitely in the right direction. Now to work up some loads. I've got some 245gr RNFP that I learned from Brian Pearce will be nice factory 44 special loads over 4.8 of Bullseye. I'll crank some of those out for target stuff.
 
Diesel Kilgore , People have bad mouthed the Speer #8 for yrs and yrs . Quite frankly most of them have never even looked at one , just go off from what someone else told them . I have that manual , it is very helpful using some of the older powders . There are loads there that are identical to current load data , some are even less than current . I have never had a problem with the starting load data in Speer #8 and working from there .
 
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cowboy4evr said:
Diesel Kilgore , People have bad mouthed the Speer #8 for yrs and yrs . Quite frankly most of them have never even looked at one , just go off from what someone else told them . I have that manual , it is very helpful using some of the older powders . There are loads there that are identical to current load data , some are even less than currendt . I have never had a problem with the starting load data in Speer #8 and working from there .
Click to expand...

I have noticed that also, many loads are spot on. I'm glad I have it because it's right on for 44 special and i'm happy that they use 700x extensively for the 44's. Although the Speer #8 is actually a bit light on the Bullseye loads.

So you think I can go with 6.5gr~ with either the 700x or Bullseye for the 215 and also a 245 swc?
 
Yes sir , I have personally shot a 245gr Keith swc (H&G 503) , loaded with 6.5grs of IMR 700X in a 44 special case and it was a tack driver and pretty mild recoil . I was shooting out of a 4" barrel . I also tried the bullseye load with good results . I have to say , I preferred the IMR 700X load , slightly .
 
Thanks cowboy, I've got plenty of 700x lying around so i'll make good use of it. Could I use this in a Magnum case with similar results, or should I bump the charge a .1 or .2?
 
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Herco works pretty well in the 44 special also.I shot this target recently with my 24-3 & a 235 gr. RNFP.
 

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cowboy4evr said:
Diesel Kilgore , People have bad mouthed the Speer #8 for yrs and yrs . Quite frankly most of them have never even looked at one , just go off from what someone else told them . I have that manual , it is very helpful using some of the older powders . There are loads there that are identical to current load data , some are even less than current . I have never had a problem with the starting load data in Speer #8 and working from there .
Click to expand...

100% with you said Cowboy.The problem is that stupid people want to start at max to get whatever fps more they can get from their gun,most of the time no chrono...just saying that their gun is ''especial''.I know these people are stupid:i blew up a perfectly good Sig P226 being stupid just like that!
But I grew wiser from that experience(don't nobody show that post to my wife...she'll find so many reasons to say otherwise about me growing wiser!).
Qc
 
Diesel Kilgore , in a magnum case , 7.0 grs works well with the heavier bullet so should be fine for you too . Even though your question is for a lighter bulllet , I would start @ 6.5 , if it looks good , then try 7.0 grs of IMR 700X in magnum cases .
 
If your 1894 Marlin is stamped "Micro Groove Rifling" on the barrel, you are wasting time, money, powder, primers and cast bullets trying to find an accurate load. My 1894 could not hit a 5 gallon bucket at 50 yards with lead bullets -- I tried as a joke. It would shoot clover leafs with 240 grain jacketed semi-wadcutters at 50 yards. EDIT: Bullet diameter was 0.430" and bullet weight was 215 gr, 232 gr, or 255 gr.

If it has standard rifling, the load that works in your handgun will be excellent in your rifle.
 
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Cowboy4evr, your comments made me also wonder how many critics have copies of or have ever seen a Speer #8 book. I bought #8 in 1971. Despite criticisms regarding some "hot" .38 Special loads, some folks may be unaware that it was really the first Speer manual that had extensive handgun load data. The manual I got when I began handloading in early 1965 was #6; it contains very limited data. #7 is about the same.

A cursory glance at the .44 Special loads in #8 shows data that is pretty much in line with more recent data.
 
Engineer1911 said:
If your 1894 Marlin is stamped "Micro Groove Rifling" on the barrel, you are wasting time, money, powder, primers and cast bullets trying to find an accurate load. My 1894 could not hit a 5 gallon bucket at 50 yards with lead bullets -- I tried as a joke. It would shoot clover leafs with 240 grain jacketed semi-wadcutters at 50 yards.

If it has standard rifling, the load that works in your handgun will be excellent in your rifle.
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Do you recall what size cast bullets you were shooting? I've been looking into getting an 1894 but I see a lot of people say it's not very accurate with .430" cast bullets. Seems that if they go to .432" then it significantly improves.
 
On the subject of " micro groove rifling " in the Marlin rifles . I have personal experience on that subject . I have a Marlin (micro groove) 336 / 30-30 caliber . It shoots the Lyman 311041 cast bullet very accurately . I cast and size to .311 . In my winchester , I shoot the same bullet but size them to .309 . When people will realize that each gun has it's own " personality " / internal dimensions and you have to do some homework to get the facts , and there are no shortcuts . Then it makes shooting cast much easier , " Proper fit is King " !
If you get the proper size cast bullet and the best weight for the speed of the rifling , I'm sure it will be as accurate as you want .
 
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OP:
My most accurate bowling pin load is 44 special at something over 900 fps out of 629-1 8 3/8" Smith with 210/215 cast SWC.

Accurate, pleasant for all day plinking. Never tried it in carbine.
 
My experience with Marlins and cast bullets is that they shoot very well, if one uses the largest diameter bullet that will chamber with out difficulty.

As for .44 caliber cartridges, I've had little luck getting good accuracy with .430" cast bullets in several S&Ws. My 29s seem to shoot best with .431" bullets, 24s, .432". I have no idea what the bores measure on any of these guns.
 
And I thought I was the only one that sized my 44 bullets to .431 or even .432 . I size all my 45 Colt cast bullets .454 . I have found it very beneficial to take the time to do my homework when checking / measuring a revolver to shoot cast . " Fit is King " .
 
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Cast and micro-groove

Engineer1911 said:
If your 1894 Marlin is stamped "Micro Groove Rifling" on the barrel, you are wasting time, money, powder, primers and cast bullets trying to find an accurate load. My 1894 could not hit a 5 gallon bucket at 50 yards with lead bullets -- I tried as a joke. It would shoot clover leafs with 240 grain jacketed semi-wadcutters at 50 yards. EDIT: Bullet diameter was 0.430" and bullet weight was 215 gr, 232 gr, or 255 gr.

If it has standard rifling, the load that works in your handgun will be excellent in your rifle.
Click to expand...
Not to stir things up but the thing with micro-groove not shooting cast is just a wives tale. I shoot plenty of cast in my .444 and it does just fine. In fact, all of my Marlin micro-groove .22's shoot lead OK.
 
Newtire said:
Not to stir things up but the thing with micro-groove not shooting cast is just a wives tale. I shoot plenty of cast in my .444 and it does just fine. In fact, all of my Marlin micro-groove .22's shoot lead OK.
Click to expand...

This may be an ancient thread, but it contains at least a bit of good information. The only Micro-Groove barrel I've had experience with in shooting cast bullets was a .45-70. They will shoot cast well, but they do require some load development, experimentation, and testing, maybe more than most care to do. A larger-than-normal diameter bullet is a good place to start. Of course, alloy mix has to be right for the load.
 
And the other factor not mentioned yet :

Feeding in leverguns . Sometimes SWC feed well , sometimes require tweeking of COL , sometimes you just call it hopeless in that gun .

For dual purpose loads , RNFP is made for slick feeding .
 
Biggfoot44 said:
And the other factor not mentioned yet :

Feeding in leverguns . Sometimes SWC feed well , sometimes require tweeking of COL , sometimes you just call it hopeless in that gun .

For dual purpose loads , RNFP is made for slick feeding .
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Yup. Love me some RNFP loads in 200gr or 240gr. Especially when poly-coated instead of using of conventional lubes.
They paper-punch almost as cleanly as LSWC but they feed better in levers AND speedload better in revolvers.
What's not to love?
 
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Newtire said:
Not to stir things up but the thing with micro-groove not shooting cast is just a wives tale. I shoot plenty of cast in my .444 and it does just fine. In fact, all of my Marlin micro-groove .22's shoot lead OK.
Click to expand...

I'm not a wife but I have an old mans tale. When I found out Marlin was going to make a .357M lever gun I put in an order at 2 gun shops for the first one they got in. Later one called and said they had my rifle so I went and got it. The next day the other called and said they had my rifle so I went and got it.
I tried the same cast bullet loads (2 different makers) that I used in my pistol in one of the guns and it shot a buckshot pattern. I tried jacketed bullets and it shot good. I sold both rifles.
I have a 1959 M39 rifle and a 1964 M39 Mountie and both shoot good. Larry
 
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