Awhile back this subject came up in this forum. I had mentioned that there had at one time, factory 22 long rifle cartridges made in center fire form. Several questioned my sanity. I have zero computer skills, so I had inability to post pictures. Just for information purposes the Internation Ammunition Association has a current thread with photos of such a cartridge. Give it a look. I have never seen a round in person but would really like to find a box at reasonable price.
22 Long Rifle centerfire
- Thread starter 30-30remchester
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I believe the company was RCC Brass. They filed bankruptcy in 2022. I wish you luck finding any cases.
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
I remember a magazine article (probably early 1970s) that described a cartridge called the ".22 Velo Dog" made in South America somewhere, essentially a .22LR cartridge utilizing a center-fire primer. Don't recall any more details, maker's name, etc.
Emphasis of the article was on the use of that cartridge in competition classes limited to center-fire pistols. Apparently the debate evolved because of real or perceived advantages due to reduced recoil in rapid fire stages. I don't know if that was the original goal of the cartridge design.
Must have been interesting enough to remain in my brain for a half-century while many really important things have leaked away.
Emphasis of the article was on the use of that cartridge in competition classes limited to center-fire pistols. Apparently the debate evolved because of real or perceived advantages due to reduced recoil in rapid fire stages. I don't know if that was the original goal of the cartridge design.
Must have been interesting enough to remain in my brain for a half-century while many really important things have leaked away.
OP
After the first post several months ago, I could not locate any pictures or information about 22 centerfire LR's. I was starting to think that maybe I was "sanity challenged". Stumbled onto the IAA site and saw pictures. The 22 Velodog LOBO mentioned is a different cartridge. It is approximately the length of a 22 magnum, yet the power level was at or below a 22 long rifle IIRC. I have one in my cartridge collection. The guns they were built for are small cheap revolvers. The VELO is another word for bicycle and dog, well dog. These revolvers were designed to shoot dogs that was perusing and biting at early bicyclists. Don't think that is something that would go over too well nowadays. The guns are quite common and can be often encountered.
cgt4570
Member
Yes, there was an obsolete .22 centerfire nearly the same dimensions as a .22LR. I don't recall the name. It was used in custom auto loaders in competitions. I'd have to dig out my Cartridges of the World books to find it. I thought it was a relative of the .22 velo dog.
Charles Askins, the famous (or notorious) gunwriter was a very capable Bullseye pistol competitor. If you are not familiar with the “2700” match format, it has three 900 point matches each intended to be shot with a different gun: .22 LR, any Centerfire, and .45. Back in the 1930s, Askins decided that a great centerfire gun would be a Colt Woodsman converted to fire a centerfire cartridge. He used the .22 Velodog as the parent case, and called the resulting cartridge the .221 Askins. Pachmayr Gun Works did the conversion. (see attached)
Anyhow, his idea worked brilliantly! The Woodsman was already established as the best American-made autoloading target pistol.
His conversion idea gave him a huge edge over the .38 revolvers that just about everyone else was using, especially in the timed and rapid fire stages. He won quite a few matches with that gun!
Well, a lot of fellow shooters considered Askins’ .22 CF conversion to be an unfair advantage. Eventually, NRA rules were changed to stipulate a minimum .32 caliber for the Centerfire match.
The next stage in the “centerfire conversion” game that I am familiar with is the .32 Wadcutter modified Ruger MKI auto devised by Atkinson & Marquart, the famous gunsmith team once based in Arizona.
I wrote a post about that:
https://smith-wessonforum.com/141569453-post13.html
Anyhow, his idea worked brilliantly! The Woodsman was already established as the best American-made autoloading target pistol.
His conversion idea gave him a huge edge over the .38 revolvers that just about everyone else was using, especially in the timed and rapid fire stages. He won quite a few matches with that gun!
Well, a lot of fellow shooters considered Askins’ .22 CF conversion to be an unfair advantage. Eventually, NRA rules were changed to stipulate a minimum .32 caliber for the Centerfire match.
The next stage in the “centerfire conversion” game that I am familiar with is the .32 Wadcutter modified Ruger MKI auto devised by Atkinson & Marquart, the famous gunsmith team once based in Arizona.
I wrote a post about that:
https://smith-wessonforum.com/141569453-post13.html
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