.22 Magnum Defense?

[686-380]

As was mentioned, having a gun is crucial. Although I don't have that caliber, I think it would do. Not for woods carry, however.
Most defensive gun uses don't involve pulling the trigger, there's that.
Another (expensive yet oh so satisfying) option is the Five-seveN's 5.7 round. Low recoil in a devastating package.

 

[murphydog]

And now, a brief armistice from the caliber wars.

Discussion about round X for defense is always interesting, but there are so many variables as to "unfriendly two-legged varmints" how can you really tell what will work? For the 90+ % of defensive incidents in which the gun is not used any caliber works great. In the 1 - 1.5% when you have to use it, there are better (and worse) choices than a .22 Magnum in a 5 1/2" barrel revolver, especially if that is all you have (JayFramer, the usual .22 Magnum frame size ).

Ready on the left, ready on the right...the thread is hot. Resume fire...

 

[silentflyer]

I recently purchased a Rock Island 1911 XTM .22 magnum, holds 14 +1 rounds. Have run a couple of hundred rounds though it so far.
The light bullets (CCI) don't feed well though it, but the heaver stuff Federal/Winchester 40-50 grain rounds no problem.
The Hornady Critical Defense rounds feed well, no misfires/feeds or problems.
Waiting for a chance for the weather to let up and try some rounds into a wet phone book, my standard old school check for bullet penetration.
No recoil issues, yes it's loud but under serious events noise level isn't a factor.
So far I am impressed.
No not a 158 grain SWC .357, but certainly a viable option.

 

[JayFramer]

Guys, thank you so much. This is a very informative thread and I am extremely grateful for all the personal stories and your thoughts.

The Single Six convertible is intriguing because I can carry the .22LR cylinder and a bunch of ammo in my pack for plinking fun and small game hunting for very little weight and bulk. I was thinking I could carry the magnum cylinder in the gun at my hip loaded with one of these .22 WMR defense loads in the very rare circumstance I come up on a dangerous person or animal. Where I will be the biggest animals are yotes and bobcats.

Looking forward to more discussion. Thanks again all!

 

[typetwelve]

I've long taken the stance of "I don't want to get shot...with anything".

Every time this rounds comes up, the same people come out to play. If I had a dollar for every time I've read the words "knockdown power" or "stopping power"...we'll, I'd have enough $$ to at least buy another gun for the safe.

In a world where people carry knives for self defense, I cannot see why some would condone a 22 magnum in a small, easy to carry defensive weapon.

People get all twisted about "shot placement"...if some thug is within working distance, I'm just happy for a nice, good old fashioned belly shot.

Knockdown power? Stopping power? Who knows...that is completely up to the individual you're shooting. Some people will **** their pants if shot...others will stay in the fight darn near whatever you shoot them with. Show placement? Again, there's people alive and walking around that have been shot point blank in the head...so there's that.

I feel that a small 22 magnum in the pocket is FAR better than whatever is in the safe if you are in a t-shirt and shorts and can't be packing many rounds of atomic bomb KO power bullets in a larger frame.

 

[Farmer17]

Bill Jordan said the ideal backup gun would be a S&W airweight Chief Special chambered for .22 Magnum. He felt so strongly about it he tried pretty hard to get Smith to make one but I'm still not sure how that would be superior to a .38 Special.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I agree and that’s why I like the Ruger LCR . . .

Bill Jordan said the ideal backup gun would be a S&W airweight Chief Special chambered for .22 Magnum. He felt so strongly about it he tried pretty hard to get Smith to make one but I'm still not sure how that would be superior to a .38 Special.

 

[The_Truth]

Hey Muss... I'm curious why you'd prefer a 22mag backup as opposed to say, a 38spl, when they both fit in the same sized gun, assuming it's an LCR or a J frame.

I totally get it in regards to a single shot or NAA type pocket gun.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Recoil and weight. I'm gonne use my backup one handed laying on my back at an odd angle, maybe with my off hand. I don't want it jumping around. Six rounds of .22 WMR, with a smaller cylinder, is lighter than five or six rounds of .38 S&W Special in a larger cylinder . . .

Hey Muss... I'm curious why you'd prefer a 22mag backup as opposed to say, a 38spl, when they both fit in the same sized gun, assuming it's an LCR or a J frame.

I totally get it in regards to a single shot or NAA type pocket gun.

 

[gwpercle]

Beg to differ. There is stopping power. Maybe just not in an handgun.

What I mean is. One can get shot with a .22 Magnum in the torso area and not even realize he has been shot, he even may die from that wound later on, but it won't help you none.

And no. I'm not volunteering to get shot with anything, not even a bb.

About the overpenetration. One can shoot through a fellow and hit someone behind him at close range.

.

I have been shot with a 22 LRHP and I realized it big time...sorta ruined my whole day and I stopped doing what I was doing at the time. It felt like being hit with a line drive from a baseball bat ...
Would I use a 22 Magnum as self defense...you bet your bottom dollar I would and not feel underarmed .
I'm alive because the bad guy was a bad shot .. accuracy and bullet placement wins the day .
Gary

 

[typetwelve]

I have been shot with a 22 LRHP and I realized it big time...sorta ruined my whole day and I stopped doing what I was doing at the time. It felt like being hit with a line drive from a baseball bat ...
Would I use a 22 Magnum as self defense...you bet your bottom dollar I would and not feel underarmed .
I'm alive because the bad guy was a bad shot .. accuracy and bullet placement wins the day .
Gary

I was going to say, my good friend was shot in the back on accident with a 22LR while out small game hunting...he sure as heck knew he had been shot.

 

[snowman.45]

The first requirement has been met; have a gun. As Gary said above, shot placement is what matters. Having said that, I have too many years of carrying a gun daily to feel really comfortable carrying anything smaller than 9mm/.38 special, and in the woods that will be .357 magnum. Guess it's my own personal bias, but it's based on years of training and experience. Now mind you, I'm not saying the .22 mag wouldn't do the job with proper shot placement, just that I wouldn't feel comfortable with it as my only sidearm.

 

[Sawfish]

Little guns are like little cameras. The very best one is the one you have with you. How many times have you left your big gun (or big camera) at home because it was too big or too heavy?

 

[smoothshooter]

Using 22mag for self defense is like digging a footing for a foundation with a shovel when you have a back hoe at your disposal.

IMO YMMV

What if there is not enough room in his pocket for a backhoe?

A shovel is much easier to conceal, and weighs a lot less than a backhoe.

 

[smoothshooter]

No stopping power (except for an head shot) and over penetration.

That makes it a negatory in my book.

Not true at all.
Study police and coroner's reports.

 

[smoothshooter]

No stopping power (except for an head shot) and over penetration.

That makes it a negatory in my book.

Not true at all.
Study police and coroner's reports.

Even .22 LR fired out of a small handgun is pretty effective with almost any sort of solid torso shot.

I have known two people shot with .22LR handguns, besides myself.
One was shot on purpose in an altercation. He lived, but said he went right down with a chest shot.
The other was an accident with a revolver while coon hunting.
He said he dropped like a rock. He survived the incident, but had to be carried half-mile to the truck, and had terrible intestinal and gastric complications the rest of his life. Died of complications from the shot about 4 years later.
I accidently shot myself in the right hand about 3 years ago.
Being a hand injury, it was not incapacitating, but there was significant damage and bleeding. In my case, there was little pain when it happened, but it increased some while I drove myself to the ER 55 minutes away.

 

[Univibe]

I've long taken the stance of "I don't want to get shot...with anything".

Every time this rounds comes up, the same people come out to play. If I had a dollar for every time I've read the words "knockdown power" or "stopping power"...we'll, I'd have enough $$ to at least buy another gun for the safe.

In a world where people carry knives for self defense, I cannot see why some would condone a 22 magnum in a small, easy to carry defensive weapon.

People get all twisted about "shot placement"...if some thug is within working distance, I'm just happy for a nice, good old fashioned belly shot.

Knockdown power? Stopping power? Who knows...that is completely up to the individual you're shooting. Some people will **** their pants if shot...others will stay in the fight darn near whatever you shoot them with. Show placement? Again, there's people alive and walking around that have been shot point blank in the head...so there's that.

I feel that a small 22 magnum in the pocket is FAR better than whatever is in the safe if you are in a t-shirt and shorts and can't be packing many rounds of atomic bomb KO power bullets in a larger frame.

Hate to belabor this, but a "belly shot" that does not penetrate a major vessel such as the abdominal aorta can have no immediate effect. A gut shot can take hours to kill somebody. Your body will be at the ME office first.


As to .22lr. I've seen forensics on a guy who was shot twice with 40 grain solids. One upper lung, one liver. Lung shot created a serious hemothorax, about 800ml blood. Liver shot 1000ml blood. Decedent went down very quickly and stayed down. (Don't mourn; it was a gang kidnapping interrupted).

The moral: shot placement and penetration are what matter.

 

[kennyb]

.22 is a fun gun for sure...it has many purposes...my self defense is not in this fun catagory

 

[typetwelve]

Hate to belabor this, but a "belly shot" that does not penetrate a major vessel such as the abdominal aorta can have no immediate effect. A gut shot can take hours to kill somebody. Your body will be at the ME office first.


As to .22lr. I've seen forensics on a guy who was shot twice with 40 grain solids. One upper lung, one liver. Lung shot created a serious hemothorax, about 800ml blood. Liver shot 1000ml blood. Decedent went down very quickly and stayed down. (Don't mourn; it was a gang kidnapping interrupted).

The moral: shot placement and penetration are what matter.

Define "effect"...

I've been attacked twice in my adult life, far more times than that in my youth. Both times as an adult were right up in my face. All the armchair commando gun training in the world would have been useless from chest to chest. Both times, had I been carrying a firearm and decided to use it, it would have been stuck in their gut and fired from point blank range. There was no time for "shot placement", no time for a proper draw and aim...they were literally up in my face chest to chest. You can practice all the "push-off, draw-fire double tap body, single shot face" stuff all you like...try it when a ticked off thug is in your face and tell me how well it works for you.

I don't care about killing someone, I care about getting them off of me. If they die in the process, so be it. If they back off, mission accomplished. Your definition of "effect" is far different than mine. "Effect" to me is what a person will do when shot at point blank range and as I stated before, that is 100% up to the individual.

Am I saying that a belly shot with a 22 magnum snubbie is a great solution? No way...but all of this silliness about 7 yard draw and fire, shot placement, and other silliness is often made by people that have never been in a street fight.

 

[dockmurgw]

Define "effect"...

I've been attacked twice in my adult life, far more times than that in my youth. Both times as an adult were right up in my face. All the armchair commando gun training in the world would have been useless from chest to chest. Both times, had I been carrying a firearm and decided to use it, it would have been stuck in their gut and fired from point blank range. There was no time for "shot placement", no time for a proper draw and aim...they were literally up in my face chest to chest. You can practice all the "push-off, draw-fire double tap body, single shot face" stuff all you like...try it when a ticked off thug is in your face and tell me how well it works for you.

I don't care about killing someone, I care about getting them off of me. If they die in the process, so be it. If they back off, mission accomplished. Your definition of "effect" is far different than mine. "Effect" to me is what a person will do when shot at point blank range and as I stated before, that is 100% up to the individual.

Am I saying that a belly shot with a 22 magnum snubbie is a great solution? No way...but all of this silliness about 7 yard draw and fire, shot placement, and other silliness is often made by people that have never been in a street fight.

And a X2 to this one. Most wouldn't have the presence of mind to know what they are doing, or even know what they did until after its over, exceptions go to the highly trained as part of a career. Good grief, this is even a common phenomena in deer hunting, so common it has a name...buck fever. I watched a guy line up on a deer and eject every shell without pulling the trigger...very entertaining, and he was home on leave from the Army. If I were a betting man, I would bet a toy gun would be as effective as a howitzer in most situations, because all someone has to do is see it and they turn tail.