231 vs HP-38

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jwr0201

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Wondering why Winchester 231 is so much more popular than HP-38 when they are supposed to be the exact same powder. Here in Central Florida, 231 is at least $2-4 higher than HP-38. I'm just curious as to why so many reloaders use 231 over HP-38. Is there some kind of mojo with the blue colored container? Or - maybe they are not really the same - ?
RR :confused:
 
I do believe that at one time they were different powders when Winchester was an independent Co. They are now the exact same, and yes you are correct; 231 typically sells for a few bucks more.

When I first started reloading, back in the early 70s, HP-38 did not exist, and 231 developed a solid reputation because it worked as good as bullseye powder (which I'm guessing was one of the original reloading pistol powders), but was cleaner and it filled a cartridge better helping to avoid double charges. I think the pricing still reflects that brand loyalty.
 
I asked my vendor the question, and he said he couldn't understand it either. Despite being the same powder, he indicated some folks just prefer 231. I don't mind spending money for things I want, but in this case I buy HP38.
 
Ya know what, I almost don't want to post in this thread.

Look, if you buy a powder today, and the manufacturer says: "They are exactly the same powder" why do folks try to drum up differences?

Should you buy a can of W231 right now and have a can from 10 years ago, what do you think will be the difference? Minimal at best BUT there can be whatever tolerances are allowed to a batch of powder there.

HP-38 and W231, are the same powder, um, period. If there is any difference found between the two, it is simply because of tolerances in batches.

One reason folks like one powder over another, even though they are the same, can be found in doing a little research on what has gone by the wayside while it's counterpart is still on the market.

People are just people that have preferences. Maybe it is the nice blue on the label. I bet that is it. W231's blue label is secretly emitting a subliminal message, put there by the goobermint all the while it is secretly a completely different powder! :eek: :rolleyes:
 
Easy Big Guy!:D

The OP is just wondering why one is more money than the other and can be found more than the other.

Only reason I see is the "Winchester" name and logo, guess like other Brand names, that costs more.

I just checked Powder Valley on line.

1lb HP 38 is $15.65

1lb Win 231 is $16.90

Go figure??:confused:
 
Before I knew W231 and HP-38 were the same powders I never bought a can of HP-38 because I started using W231 and i was happy with in. Nowadays I buy whichever is cheaper and I have both labels on my shelf right now.
 
Ya see now, I kinda like the funny ones. I actually saved 2 for when I open up my 8lb jug I can pore some in a 1lb jug to keep on the rack above the bench.
 
My very first reloads were for the .38 Spl with 231 powder. A friend of mine who was a Michigan handgun silhouette champion reccomended it for the .38. So I listened. That was in 1982 and I still use it.
 
Andy Griffith said:
There is a huge difference in those two powders!!!

One is shipped in a Winchester funny looking can, and the other is shipped in a normal can. :p
Click to expand...

Actually, today, they are in the same can!

hp381b.jpg


Winchester-231.jpg



:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
 
The message I get is CHEAPER, CHEAPER, CHEAPER!!!
Average $1 per pound, $4 per four pound jar, $8 per eight pound jug.
I have asked the same question before.
I have been told that Winchester is a more famous name. However, Hodgdon almost created reloading after WWII.
When I first started reloading in the late 60's a guy told me to go out to a certain pasture, find an old well, pull up the rope, and help myself out of a 100# can of 4831. Said he and some other guys had given about $10 for it.
 
I don't think there is anything mysterious in this at all. Many reloaders have a recipe that they are happy with and don't want to change. After Winchester was acquired, the new owners found W-231 still had a strong brand following, which equals a higher price point.
They are the same product. Use either one without changing your favorite recipe.
 
While it's the same powder, made in GD St. Marks factory on the same production line, and packaged by the same IMR/Winchester/Hodgdon distributor - the price is different at every level of marketing.

I just ordered a case from my wholesaler - Jerry's, specifying HP38 with W231 as the 2nd choice. They were out of HP38, but had 231 at $15 more per the 8lb jug.

Since they are able to charge more for the Winchester-branded product, I predict that the distributor will discontinue the Hodgdon-labeled powder, same as they did with 4227.
LT
 
krehmkej said:
Probably royalty cost for use of the Winchester name.
Click to expand...

I agree. Brand power still carries a lot of weight and power in many people's minds. And Winchester is an old old name. And most people can't spell Hogdon. Hodgon. Hogdgon. Hodgdon. I'm only half joking. Check out some people's crazy spelling on the big H. :eek:
 
Probably should not talk about it to much, would not be shocked to see the price of both of them to be the same a few months from now.
 
Today they are the same. I bought a can of hp38 yesterday and compared it with a metal can of 231 I bought back in the 80's.
Completely different!
The 231 I have is a gray flake powder. The hp38 is a black ball powder. The burn rate may be similar but they are different powders entirely. I don't know when they became the same powder with different labels but the 231 from back then is not the same as the new 231/hp38.
 
It is the "All American " jug of powder.
Did you not notice the............

Red, White & Blue colors !!

Plus a "Cowboy" and horse................

Hello !!

Only thing missing is a hot dog in the rides hand and a box of apple pie tied to the saddle bags.
 
Its just a name brand versus a less known brand. I worked for an aerosol packager for 20 years. We did name brand aerosol products such as G.M, S.T.P., etc. We would do a changeover to a different label but not as well known but the same product. The price of the less known product was always lower. This was because of the big advertising bill for the name brands.
 
I never find 231 around me but always find hp 38. My hp is a grey flake almost silver not black strange


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
With so many....

With so many takeovers and mergers among powder manufacturers, you can have a favorite powder and customer loyalty that it is THE powder for you. Then all of the management and ownership changes take over. Unless a powder is eliminated from the lineup people will still tend to favor their 'favorites'

Also we are told NOT TO SUBSTITUTE any powder for another and that you should have data for each powder. Then with these changes, the companies never tell anybody a powder is exactly the same as another. Of course this causes a lot of confusion.
 
Last edited:
I don't use either of these powders.

I've been reloading less than a year, and would really like to try one or the other.

Once I find one or the other in stock, I'll buy whichever one is available.

Lately, at least, when it comes to Hogdon/Winchester branded powders, I've had better luck finding the Winchester branded product than the Hogdon product. This at least seems to be true with H110/W296, where I've been able to find 296 at least sporadically(and therefore have a few cans of it) and not H110 at all.
 
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