25-2 with unrelieved cylinder?

[mbdorfer]

Just got back from the gun shop and bought some .45 ACP ammo for my 25-2.
They had some full moon clips there and after loading the cartridges into the clip and loading the clip into the cylinder, I found that the cylinder would not close.
We also tried lodaing some .45 auto rim and the cylinder would not close. The ACP rounds fit perfectly without the moon clip. I'm kinda new but I would think that the cylinder should have a bit of a recess to allow for the clip? Could this be a factory defect? Was wondering if I could just shoot the acp's without the clips?
Thanks in advance.

Mike B

 

[buckeyeshooter]

On my particular 25-2, Auto rim cases have to be trimmed for them to fit correctly. Acp's in the clips work fine. You can fire ACP's with no clips, however, if you do they are very difficult to remove without a dowel rod to push them out from the front of the cylinder. The clips give the ejector star something to push against. Try trimming your auto rim cases and you may find they work the best.

 

[tomhenry]

A profile shot w/cylinder closed would help.

But, you're saying that w/auto rim cases, the case head is hitting the frame? That's not the way it should be.

Re moon clips: whether half moon or full moon, in my 25-2 revolvers, the cylinder has always closed. So yes, there should be sufficient recess/gap (between cylinder and frame) to allow for ACP/moon clips.

 

[HAWKEYE10]

could this 25 be chambered for 45 colt, i think
some where.

don

 

[mbdorfer]

Originally posted by HAWKEYE10:
could this 25 be chambered for 45 colt, i think
some where.

don

No, tried those also. The cylinder is too short for them.
Here's a few more pics.

 

[tomhenry]

I don't have my 25-2 in front of me, but that looks like sufficient relief.

Did you try unfired ACP brass in moon clips?

 

[Culina]

maybe try cleaning out the chambers, its been fired before so there should be no reason you can't get it to work.

 

[diamonback68]

The profile shot looks like you have so much crud or something built up in the charge holes that it is keeping the cartidges from seating properly. Look in there ans see if you can see "build-up", or possibly rust, around the groove that the shell headspaces on. I'd give the cylinder a good cleaning first and see what happens.

Are you sure it's 45 ACP ammo and not 45 GAP?

I would not try to fire that gun with those shells inproperly seated like that. You could have some blown cases.

 

[Arisin Wind]

Aren't GAP rounds shorter?

 

[mbdorfer]

Originally posted by diamonback68:
The profile shot looks like you have so much crud or something built up in the charge holes that it is keeping the cartidges from seating properly. Look in there ans see if you can see "build-up", or possibly rust, around the groove that the shell headspaces on. I'd give the cylinder a good cleaning first and see what happens.

Are you sure it's 45 ACP ammo and not 45 GAP?

I would not try to fire that gun with those shells inproperly seated like that. You could have some blown cases.

Thanks Dick, I was wondering if it might need a good cleaning. The rounds in the pics are Western 45 auto 230 gr. full metal case.

 

[pharmer]

I used to have a Brazilian 1917. Wouldn't work well with moonclips but worked perfectly with 1/2 moon clips, the original design. Joe

 

[Hammerless-12]

What kind of full moon clips are you trying to use? The plastic ones I have all needed the inside diameter (the hole that fits around the ratchet) reamed or scrapped with a knife or file. The instuctions I recieved with the clips stated exactly that, after I had the same problem as you I read the instructions. I like the plastic clips because they are easy to load and unload.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I have a 25-2 that is sensitive to case length. Well, it is to those that have grown too long. I can fire cases longer than recommended OAL in my autos with no trouble, but not in the 25-2. It will fire them that are on the short side with no trouble. 25-2's were chambered for the case to headspace on the ledge at the front of the chamber, unlike the .45 ACP revo's that S&W makes today that must use moon clips of some type to headspace properly. I shoot my 25-2 without any moon clips and the cases pull out easily with just my fingernail. I find it takes too long to load and unload all those moon clips. I don't like how much room they take up when loaded, in my range bag either.

Another thing that may be in play here, is someone may have used a few endshake bearings to take get rid of excess endshake, and it is causing the cases to bind against the recoil sheild. Just something to consider if cleaning and checking case length don't pan out.

 

[jcelect]

REVOLVER ROLL CRIMP! ! ! !
If you people are shooting a revolver and you reload, never reload a round without the roll crimp! This step takes case length out of the mess! And if you have never had a bullet pull half way out under recoil you have missed the biggest bag-o-worms you will ever see! !
jcelect

 

[29aholic]

Originally posted by jcelect:
REVOLVER ROLL CRIMP! ! ! !
If you people are shooting a revolver and you reload, never reload a round without the roll crimp! This step takes case length out of the mess! And if you have never had a bullet pull half way out under recoil you have missed the biggest bag-o-worms you will ever see! !
jcelect

You are forgetting that an ACP headspaces on the case mouth...a roll crimp can mess with headspacing in this case.

 

[jcelect]

Hey 29aholic
Your 100% correct, for a bottom feeding auto jammer! However, that's why moon clips were invented, they not only provide a means for extraction but they headspace the round in the chamber properly. Plus the roll crimp makes speed loading easier with full moon clips.
jcelect

 

[Vartex]

Could it be that the center pen/extractor rod or one of the yoke mounted parts is not seated or is bent, loose, or excessively dirty?

Have you tried to close the cylinder with each of the charge holes at top center; that could tell you if something is bent.

 

[Andy Taylor]

Are your clips bent?

 

[mbdorfer]

Originally posted by Lucky Derby:
Are your clips bent?

Thanks for all the replies. I actually don't have clips.
There was one at the gun shop and we tried it out. I'm thinking now that maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention and perhaps the center cut out of the clip was not large enough to seat over the raised part of the extractor rod? Like I said, I'm a "newbie" and just want to be able to fire this gun safely.
Yet, there's still the issue of the auto rim shells not fitting?
I guess I'm going to try firing it without the clips and hope for the best.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

Mine works perfect without clips as I already mentioned, and I don't care for clips anyway. Unless you are carrying it for self defense or are into action games where superfast reloads are of the utmost importance, don't worry about them.

I would be concerned about AR cases not fitting though. You may want to double or triple check the ledge at the front of the chamber that the cases headspace on, and make sure they are clean. If not, they can make AR cases hard to seat as well. Measure the rims of the cases that you tried, and make sure that they are within spec too.

Good luck, and if you get it figured out, let the rest of us know what was up.