3 FTFs today after 1500rounds after pigtail spring removed

silverrado58, welcome to the forum!

The 16th round is a bear at first. If you can't load 16, then load 15 and keep them loaded and have fun shooting the gun. You'll get #16 in eventually as they break in, just get mean with it.

Everything about the sigma including the mags gets smoother each time out.

Do a search in this forum on the SD mags, there has been much discussion on them. The base plates are different. The sigma has what many refer to as the Ice scraper floor plates. It comes in handy if you get a little ice on your windshield. LOL! :)

Again, welcome and enjoy your sigma!
 
IT'S A REAL BEAR TO GET THAT 16TH ROUND INTO THE MAGAZINES. Does anyone else have that problem? Right now I got them loaded up and staying that way, until i finally get to the range (hopefully soon) I figured that will break in the magazine springs. Also I read somewhere on the internet that SD9 mags will work in a Sigma 9VE and visa versa, true or BS?

I've got 6 Sigma mags, and 2 SD mags, only one of the mags (Sigma) will readily accept the 16th round, I'm NOT from the school that says if it don't fit force it, so I only load 'em to 15. IMHO not a problem.

And yes, the Sigma & SD magazines interchange. Only difference I can see is the base, although I believe someone has said the followers and base lock plates are different as well. The mag tubes are identical.
 
My Sigma is still fairly new. It came with two 16 round magazines. Although stiff, both accept 16 rounds with a little effort. Like any new magazine, I am sure they will get easier with use.

I did have a fail to lock back of the slide on empty using one of them, the last time I shot the pistol. Even manually moving the slide back, failed to result in the slide locking. I was not very concerned so I have not explored the reason for the failure(three times). It may be a minor issue. It isn't that important to me right now and I will address the issue later, after I shoot the pistol again. I haven't taken the magazine apart to clean it yet. I am waiting for a UPS delivery of a bottle of S&W dry lube.
 
I've got 6 Sigma mags, and 2 SD mags, only one of the mags (Sigma) will readily accept the 16th round, I'm NOT from the school that says if it don't fit force it, so I only load 'em to 15. IMHO not a problem.

And yes, the Sigma & SD magazines interchange. Only difference I can see is the base, although I believe someone has said the followers and base lock plates are different as well. The mag tubes are identical.
I agree with you on the that loading only 15 is not a problem, I guess I'm of the mindset that if something says it can do it. I want to see if it can, if only once.
Thanks for the info, Rick
 
It is sunny here in NC today and I decided to fire a few rounds of $8.95 a box ammo. Darn, a box of fifty goes by pretty fast. My sigma is new and still being broken in and so far I have had ZERO FTF/FTE. Today however, I had several fails for the slide to lock back on an empty magazine, even when I tried to do it manually. I just know that it must have had something to do with my removing the pigtail spring. What else could it be. After all, you folks warned me. Of course I had NO fail to fires and no fail to eject. I also had no fail to feed. Just the slide that intermittently failed to lock back on empty. It had to be the darn pigtail spring!

Just being factious. I know that it must be related to the magazine. Of course, I haven't fired a thousand rounds through it yet, or even five hundred through that mag.

Man this thing fires nice! I am using some of the cheapest ammo I can pick up at a gun show to practice with while I mess with the action. I am looking for a brand of ammo that has hard primers. Anyone with suggestions?

I heard that CCI has hard primers, as a matter of fact I'm almost sure of it, I used to reload for the 35 Rem before I sold my Marlin 336. I had bought a box of 1000 CCI primers, and out of that 1000 I had about 50 misfires,(totally unsatisfactory) never had that problem with Winchester or Remington primers. I assume you have a 9mm by the number of rounds you said your mags hold. So check out military surplus ammo, they have hard primers, made that way to withstand rough handling, and auto fire, but be careful of 9mm NATO, aka NATO-SPEC, these are loaded to much higher pressures to be used in smg. If you reload you can get what they call mil-spec primers, which if i'm not mistaken is made by CCI, imagine that. I wonder if CCI got them mixed up with their regular primers, and I got one of the boxes? Hmmmm!!! never thought about that until just now, and I sold that Marlin years ago, didn't want to it was a great rifle, just needed the money at the time.
 
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Thanks. In another forum someone also suggested that Russian ammo has hard primers. I will look around for some military stuff and see how it goes. Torture tests are great...as long as they are not destructive. CCI huh? Ok, I will check that out also.

Thanks again for the info. I knew that someone would be able to assist on here. Great bunch of folks on this forum.
 
Oh BTW I forgot to mention that CCI is aka Speer. Not sure if CCI or Speer is the parent company, it just depends on what their making, e.g CCI Blazers, Speer Lawman both factory ammo from the same entity.
 
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Hmm, just finished a box of speer lawman and two boxes of PMC. Still no FTF/FTE.

The worst stuff I have seen out there is Wolf and American Eagle, and even the Tula at Wally World. Just my opinion.

I was looking at some Black Bear(?) at the gun show but it had runs in the lacquer on the casing. I am looking for hard primers, not crappy casings.

My little 9ve is one nice piece of machinery.
 
Hmm, just finished a box of speer lawman and two boxes of PMC. Still no FTF/FTE.

The worst stuff I have seen out there is Wolf and American Eagle, and even the Tula at Wally World. Just my opinion.

I was looking at some Black Bear(?) at the gun show but it had runs in the lacquer on the casing. I am looking for hard primers, not crappy casings.

My little 9ve is one nice piece of machinery.

Hey that's cool I like to hear good things about a gun that I just purchased, but have'nt got a chance to shoot yet. One of the problems where I live is, none of the ranges that are open on a regular basis we'll let you shoot reloads. I have to travel about 40 miles, to the next county. I guess I been reloading too long and got spoiled on reloading prices, and cringe at the cost of factory ammo, even Walmart prices.:eek: Yeah! I know, stop beinging a cheapskate!!! I'm working on it!!!:rolleyes:
 
If you buy military ammo, the steel cases will play hell on your extractor. The Sigma will shoot them no problem, but I stop shooting them when I found out the could ruin your gun.
 
Primers and mythology

One of the most persistent myths in shooting is that there are hard primers and soft primers. That isn't true. The real issue is primer sensitivity or-more frequently-something within the gun or loading process that causes the gun to go click when it shoulda' gone bang.
All four of the major ammunition companies make primers and they all do it pretty much the same way. Thin brass and steel in huge rolls is bought from a mill. From it, primer cups and anvils, respectively, are stamped by simple presses. Everybody does it this way. A soapy lubricant is used in the stamping operations, both cup and anvil are then washed, dried and sent off to become primers. Some primer cups receive a thin nickel plating.
While there may be some small differences in specifications for the raw brass from one maker to the other, none of it is hardened-it couldn't be stamped right if it was. It is common knowledge that brass work-hardens with bending, but the only place that could happen to a significant degree would be along the radius where it rounds out from bottom to sides.
There is no need to worry much about hardness in that area since it isn't where the firing pin strikes. There have been instances where that area became so hard as to be brittle, and there could be a tiny perforation when the primer was fired. Some manufacturers include an annealing step to prevent that possibility.
But since there is no "work" done to the bottom of the cup, it is much less affected and remains essentially as it came from the mill. Still, everyone who reloads has probably experienced a misfire, and found that the firing pin impression on the primer was much smaller than normal. It is perfectly reasonable to think that individual primer was hard, but the trouble can almost always be traced to other causes. Very often, that primer will fire if it is hit again.
A common reason for that type of misfire in semi-automatic firearms is that the gun was not fully into the battery position. Semi-automatics, regardless of the type, must have a part called the disconnector that prevents the gun from firing out of battery. But if the slide closes almost all the way, the disconnector may allow the hammer to fall. Then a substantial portion of the firing pin's energy will be absorbed simply in pushing the slide into battery. That can almost always be traced to a dirty gun, but sometimes a weak recoil spring is the culprit. It can also be a shooter-induced malfunction by either "limp wristing" the pistol or by restricting slide movement with a faulty grip. The most common cause of misfires in revolvers is a weakened mainspring-often as a result of an effort to reduce the trigger pull. Those misfires are characterized by a light hit on the primer.
Stories of hard primers are much more commonly told by hand loaders than shooters of factory ammunition. The major cause of misfires in hand loaded ammunition is a fault in the primer seating operation. What's ideal is for the primer to be seated so the anvil is just touching the bottom of the primer pocket. In practical terms, that means the primer should be 0.003''-0.005'' below flush with the head of the cartridge. If it isn't, the resulting "high primer" may misfire since the firing pin's energy is absorbed seating the primer the rest of the way.
It is also possible to induce a misfire by seating the primer too deeply. Many priming tools are capable of actually crushing the primer. If that happens, it is possible the primer mix inside the cup fractures or pulverizes, and if the primer mix cannot be compressed by the firing pin strike, a misfire is the result.
While the primer is the sparkplug that gets things going, it is also the stopper that keeps the genie in the bottle. It's equally important other job is to seal the primer pocket so the pressure has to push the bullet down the bore. This obturation function is just another reason why primers can't be too hard. Since hardened brass becomes brittle-which would be a bad thing-it is in the interest of the manufacturers to prevent primer cups from becoming too hard.
The primer's malleability is the property that often leads reloaders astray. We are always told to watch for signs of high pressure by observing the fired primer. All primers have a radius between the flat bottom and side wall. A change there is taken to be a pressure indicator. And so it is, but there is substantial evidence to show that by the time the primer is noticeably flattened, pressures already are well above maximum. Other things reloaders look for are a diminished firing pin imprint, cratering around the firing pin impression or the smearing of primer metal outside the primer pocket. In more egregious cases, there
will be enlargement of the primer pocket and possibly leakage around the primer. Those are signs that are far more serious and proof positive that the load is over maximum pressure. In the very worst case, the spent primer simply falls out.
In locked-breech semi-automatic pistols, there is a sign that can be misunderstood, but is indirect evidence that a load is too hot. The short recoil design common today allows the slide and barrel to recoil as a unit for a short distance before the barrel unlocks and drops down to let the slide continue in recoil. It is something that happens very quickly, and sometimes it is so fast that the firing pin does not have time to retract back into the slide before the barrel begins to drop down. The result is a primer with an elongated firing pin impression and, in a worst case; primer metal can actually be sheared off. While there are other causes, firing pin drag along the primer is often an indication of an excessive load.
As with all other things in shooting, the equipment we have today has evolved sequentially as one advance opened the door for the next one. As an example, in the early 1800s the Rev. Alexander John Forsyth-a Scottish minister-found that certain chemical compounds, among them fulminate of mercury, could be made to detonate with a blow. Within just a few years, the flintlock rifle was made obsolete by the percussion cap. One of the drawbacks of any muzzle loading firearm is that there has to be a hole somewhere to permit ignition. It must have been one of those "eureka" moments when someone figured out that a primer could also seal the breech end of a cartridge case. It was immediately more efficient. In his Complete Guide to Hand Loading, The American Rifleman's Phil Sharpe wrote, "There is more real romance wrapped up in the little primer of your cartridge than in any other single development of firearms science." Primer development knew no national boundaries, but American and British efforts were quickly accepted as standard. Interestingly, the Berdan primer, which is used everywhere but the U.S., was an American invention, and the Boxer primer we use came from Great Britain.
Very early in the history of cartridge cases, standardization came about in the form of large primers with a diameter of 0.210'' and small ones at 0.175''. In addition, there was distinction between rifle and pistol primers since the powders used in handgun cartridges rarely needed as energetic a mix to get them going compared with rifle loads. That picture becomes even muddier when we add magnum primers to the equation. Both the quantity of primer mix and its chemistry are the controlled variables that make this work.
While the diameters of both rifle and pistol primers are the same, the height is not. It is not unusual to see small rifle primers loaded in handgun cases for exceptionally high pressure loads. Examples would be the super magnum handgun rounds, such as the .454 Casull, which typically uses a small rifle primer. Another would be their use in cartridges such as hand loads for the .38 Super when pumped up to make major velocities in practical shooting. But that doesn't work with large primers. The large rifle primer is too high to seat in a pistol case.
 
Good stuff John. So, even though we are saying hard vs. soft primers, truth be told it is just a matter of how the primers are seated? Sorry, I am not a reloader. It just seems to me that the factory stuff is so inexpensive that I can't really justify reloading. But, if certain factory ammo has a Rep. of having hard primers, according to your post it is really a matter of proper seating. Otherwise, fail to fires are generally spring related. Is that it in a nut shell, or am I missing something. Hey, it's almost midnight here so I may be a bit fuzzy.
 
i still dont understand why everyone is removing the pig tail spring. that spring is not the reason for the hard trigger pull, all it does is to help reset. take the slide off and pull the trigger there is almost zero resistance.

my only concern with the pigtail spring was that it was wearing a grove in the plastic. i spoke with several guys who have fired 1000s of rounds without a problem as well as S&W techs they all say the same thing, not a problem.
 
Actually, once I took mine off to smooth out some parts, it was just too much of a hassle to put it back on. And considering the fact that no one has reported having problems with their sigma with out it, I saw no reason to replace it. I see no reason to use +P+ ammo so maybe that's the reason I have had no issues with my sigma after I removed it. If I ever start having problems with the operation of my pistol, that can be attributed to the absence of the "pigtail" spring, I will replace it. I still have the original parts.
 
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