32-44 Smith & Wesson Target "Bullet Design" confirmed!

[StrawHat]

Murph,

Clear up my confusion please. Which 38/44 are you loading and shooting? A S&W Number 3 or a S&W Heavy Duty (or Outdoorsman)? And which cartridge, 38/44 Target or 38/44 HD? And is there any dimensional difference?

I was okay until I reread the thread!

Kevin

 

[Green Frog]

Murph,

Clear up my confusion please. Which 38/44 are you loading and shooting? A S&W Number 3 or a S&W Heavy Duty (or Outdoorsman)? And which cartridge, 38/44 Target or 38/44 HD? And is there any dimensional difference?

I was okay until I reread the thread!

Kevin

What he said! I guess I'm one of those casual readers of interesting sounding threads (that I accused others of being ) but when too many topics and especially numbers get mixed into the thread, I get lost. Not really a criticism to any of you, and especially not to my colleague Murph, nor my e-friend Kevin, just an observation. Press on into the fray, gentlemen!

Froggie

 

[BMur]

Who's on first?

Um,
Well, isn't this the "Antique Forum"? Antiques only? That would be New Model 3 Targets. Now I'm confused. Who's on first? LOL.

Murph

 

[Kurusu]

@ BMur.

I don't know if you considered this. But since you are trying to access the accuracy. Use a drop tube(a foot long should be enough) to load the powder into the cases. Don't ask me why but it seems to improve the accuracy with blackpowder loaded cartridges.

 

[BMur]

Range test attempt

Well,
I went to the range this morning. "Early".... I was beside myself...."A LINE"???

Information from the website said they are open. They were initially closed due to virus issues so I had no idea what to expect.

Turns out that of the 12 stations that are normally open for the 25 yard range? There is 1 open now....ONLY 1 ! You have a 2 hour timed shooting limit. People waiting in line outside the fence are staring at you while you are shooting waiting their turn?

3 stations at the 50 and 2 stations at the 100 yard. All taken.

I've never in my life waited in line at the shooting range and at my age I'm not going to start now.

BLM land is not an option right now since they have already shut down public land due to Fire Hazard (Fire Season in California Is taken very seriously)

So, I'm back home now kinda pissed off but I will try to call a few other ranges and see how bad they are or if they are even open with this virus going on.

Murph

 

[Green Frog]

I feel your pain, Murph! To have 12 stations but only open 1 appears to me more punishment than social distancing! Of course we have to consider your state's political climate and expect some blowback from those of a certain persuasion who would like to eliminate all shooting. Here in Kalifornia East, the former Commonwealth of Virginia, an indoor range owner had to go to court to be able to reopen at all, and of course he has extremely good ventilation and air filtration second only to a scientific lab. I just keep hoping "this too shall pass!"

Froggie

 

[BMur]

Ranget test?

Yeah Charlie,
It's tough out there right now. However, it looks like we might see even more relaxing of the restrictions soon. I think they are finding out now that it's not as lethal as they are making it seem. "Percentage" wise anyway.

I haven't given up yet on the range test. I'm talking to several shooting buddies. Already have several leads on ranges to shoot at but I'm trying to find one close first before I go venture out into the valley.

Murph

 

[Oyeboteb]

I finally got a few original Cartridges, all loaded, to go with my own .32 - 44 -

Just waned to share a picture of them...each has a tiny little label on it, so, it looks like these had been in someone's collection...they are in quite nice condition too.

One, the Bullet is in the very end of the Cartridge but still inside it...the rest, Bullet or Ball is down in quite a ways, so, "Gallery Rounds" apparently...

Hosted on Fotki

 

[DarryH]

Loved this thread, but not I'll sleep until I know how the shooting went !!!!!!

 

[Oyeboteb]

Loved this thread, but not I'll sleep until I know how the shooting went !!!!!!

Same here, and I am in the Race too ya know!

( Just so little time for anything but "work" any more with me, all day every day 7 days-a-week "Work", so, eeeesh! Loading Bench has Cob Webs on it..! All else but bare essentials gets neglected or shined-on...)

Who-ever gets to the Range first with their .32 - 44 and posts a nice 'Range Report' ought to get some sort of Honors, for sure!

It ain't easy sometimes!

 

[BMur]

No place to shoot

I've been loaded up and ready for a while now. Even tried to shoot at my favorite range. I already posted that nightmare. The few ranges that are open( Due to this Virus not because of California!!!!). They limit the time you can shoot after waiting in line!!! Sorry, I can't do that!! I like to make a full day of shooting. Normally shooting both rifle and pistol. Having the line Stare at you doesn't appeal to me!
Plus we are in fire season here in California so you can't legally shoot on BLM land until the season is declared over! Which now goes into December! So I guess we are just going to have to wait til things get better. Or Phil gets his stuff loaded up?

Murph

 

[model3sw]

Have 2 Ideal .32-44 Target hand loaders stashed and a Revolving Rifle .32 (mold only) which IIRC is a .323". Also have.44 American and .44 Russian Ideal hand loading tools and a few Himmelwright molds.

Not sure (can't tell for sure from picture) but seems like bullet seating threaded rod has been replaced and decapping pin missing.

 

[Oyeboteb]

I've been loaded up and ready for a while now. Even tried to shoot at my favorite range. I already posted that nightmare. The few ranges that are open( Due to this Virus not because of California!!!!). They limit the time you can shoot after waiting in line!!! Sorry, I can't do that!! I like to make a full day of shooting. Normally shooting both rifle and pistol. Having the line Stare at you doesn't appeal to me!
Plus we are in fire season here in California so you can't legally shoot on BLM land until the season is declared over! Which now goes into December! So I guess we are just going to have to wait til things get better. Or Phil gets his stuff loaded up?

Murph

Oye!

Friend of mine has an old 20 Acre Ranch near by, right outside of Town a little ways, and it has an old, decommissioned Railroad Way which in the terrain, makes a nice Embankment as Back-Stop in the low areas...

So, I finally have a place to Shoot anyway..! And it is nice...basically Wilderness other than for the 1880s RR Bed...dense with Trees and Scrub...

Otherwise, no Clubs or outdoor Ranges anywhere near here.

There is a nice indoor Range a half hours Drive from here, but, I am sure they do not want Black Powder going on, so...

 

[Oyeboteb]

Have 2 Ideal .32-44 Target hand loaders stashed and a Revolving Rifle .32 (mold only) which IIRC is a .323". Also have.44 American and .44 Russian Ideal hand loading tools and a few Himmelwright molds.

Not sure (can't tell for sure from picture) but seems like bullet seating threaded rod has been replaced and decapping pin missing.

Mmmm! Nice!

Post us some pictures of these when you have a chance?

 

[Tony M.]

I'm a little late to the party (as usual?) but I thought I'd add a few more points of reference from my collection of tools and molds.

My 32-44 ideal tool was for the gallery loads and cast a .321 ball and had a .320 sizing hole.

I also have a 2 cavity ideal separate block mold that casts a 32362 bullet (at .324 in pure lead) and a .321 round ball, although the RB cavity is specified on the mold as .319.

My Peanut handle mold casts an 80 grain (apx.) bullet at .314 (in pure lead) that is clearly the .32 S&W bullet, along with a .313 round ball. The priming portion of the mold will accept a case up to .340 (.32 S&W should be about .337).

I also had a winchester mold marked 32-44 S&W but it had been drilled out by someone long before I got it, so other than presenting the existence of such a thing, isn't terribly valuable as a reference.

 

[Oyeboteb]

I just want to convey exactly why I am very skeptical of the 1 1/2" grouping historical claim?

If you look at official Olympic targets that are used today along with very Trick small caliber low recoil custom High Tech pistols? You can see from the 10 meter target? Photo 1
And the 50 meter target? Photo 2

If you can shoot 1 1/2 groups? You would be a Gold Metal winner at ANY event! WORLD CHAMPION!!!!

Murph

If I got back in practice I could do 1-1/2 inch groups at ten meters with any of my old Service Revolvers or my early Colt Government Model, Colt 1902 Sporting, early .38 Specials, etc.

50 Meters...m-a-y-b-e, if getting back in practice, I could hold a five inch group...

Used to be able to hit a Cigarette Pack or Playing Card pretty much every time, at 50 Yards, one Handed, with various of my early 1900s Service Hand Guns...had to use Kentucky Windage with those.

I did not have any Target Pistols then.

But, indeed, 1-1/2 inch Groups at fifty meters with the 'New Model 3' Revolvers, whatever chambering, would be one heck of an accomplishment..!

One best eat lots of Carrots and Cod Livers to see such minute nuance of Sighting...and ease back a little on strong Coffee.

These are fairly heavy Revolvers too, especially the .32 - 44s...and, speaking for myself, I think my Arm would get tired and rubbery if doing a fifty round string..! Lol...

 

[Oyeboteb]

I'm a little late to the party (as usual?) but I thought I'd add a few more points of reference from my collection of tools and molds.

My 32-44 ideal tool was for the gallery loads and cast a .321 ball and had a .320 sizing hole.

I also have a 2 cavity ideal separate block mold that casts a 32362 bullet (at .324 in pure lead) and a .321 round ball, although the RB cavity is specified on the mold as .319.

My Peanut handle mold casts an 80 grain (apx.) bullet at .314 (in pure lead) that is clearly the .32 S&W bullet, along with a .313 round ball. The priming portion of the mold will accept a case up to .340 (.32 S&W should be about .337).

I also had a winchester mold marked 32-44 but it had been drilled out by someone long before I got it, so other than presenting the existence of such a thing, isn't terribly valuable as a reference.

What fun!

Such rare and interesting accouterments..!

Is the Winchester Mold marked as "32-44" so a boy or girl glancing at it would know what it is?

 

[Tony M.]

What fun!

Such rare and interesting accouterments..!

Is the Winchester Mold marked as "32-44" so a boy or girl glancing at it would know what it is?

Sorry, I updated the post with the corrected marking of "32-44 S&W". Sadly as I said, someone drilled it out, I think to make fishing sinkers..

 

[BMur]

Winchester bullet mold

Tony M.,

That Winchester bullet mold ? Which type is it? Brass, Iron without wood handles? Or with wood handles. What a shame someone drilled it out!

Murph

 

[Tony M.]

Tony M.,

That Winchester bullet mold ? Which type is it? Brass, Iron without wood handles? Or with wood handles. What a shame someone drilled it out!

Murph

Good questions, I'm sorry for leaving that out, especially since it is actually pertinent... It's an iron mold with wood handles and brass ferules at both end of the handles to the best of my recollection. I gave it to a friend who wanted to try brazing and re-cutting the cavity. Unfortunately he passed away shortly thereafter and I haven't seen it since. I could care less about the mold, but I miss my friend.