.32 WCF 1905 M&P Hand Ejector

[tripledipper]

I have acquired a revolver which is a 32-20 caliber. The serial # is 74051, the last Patent number on the 4-1/4" barrel says 01DEC17 and 32 WCF CTG, the serial number is on the cylinder and butt. The grips are wood with a gold S&W emblem. Without a picture, this is a shooter grade, the cylinder, frame and barrel have lost much bluing, barrel rifling looks good and cylinder locks up fairly tight. Is this an I-frame or a K-frame? Approximate value? I thought this was a 32long, not a 32-20, did not do my homework and don't wish to keep it. Should I put it for sale/trade on the forum with pictures? Would be glad to trade for a 32long of equivalent value or sell it outright.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The .32-20, AKA .32 Winchester Center Fire, AKA .32 WCF is a K frame Military & Police revolver. You can shoot .32 S&W Long in it but accuracy may be affected. In the condition you describe, I'd put it in the $500 +/- range. You may be able to get someone to trade a .32 Hand Ejector for it but if it is in the same condition as your .32-20, it wouldn't be an advantageous trade for you. Put it in the classifieds and sell it outright.

 

[merl67]

In my uneducated opinion that 32-20 is worth more than a similar condition fixed sight 32 long your mileage may vary....

 

[Muley Gil]

With the gold medallion grips, your .32-20 dates to 1910-1920. Someone may come along with a closer date.

 

[H Richard]

A K Frame 32 Long will be considerably more expensive than the 32-20. There are quite a few I Frame and J Frame 32 Long's that are great fun shooters and may be found in worn but solid condition. 32-20 ammo is expensive and hard to find, it isn't easy to load for either. I would sell directly and begin looking for a 32 long to shoot.

 

[glowe]

That revolver should be stamped 32 WINCHESTER CTG, not 32-20? It was most likely shipped before 1920 with a 4" barrel. Worn K frame Military & Police revolvers will definitely be worth more than a similar condition 32 Hand Ejector in 32 Long. The 32-20 cartridge is a great round to shoot and there are recipes out there that break the sound barrier. The 32-20 can be a very accurate round to shoot. Many target shooters of the era preferred the smaller caliber over 38 Special for competitions. They are snappy, while 32 Long is definitely not. Most people find the I frame too small for many shooter's hands today.

I load 32-20 all the time and have to say it is no harder to load than any other cartridge out there if you have the correct caliber die set and pay attention getting them set up properly. For me, they are much easier to load than another popular old-time bottleneck caliber, the 44-40. Besides, it is an interesting cartridge at the range and it will draw people hearing the distinctive report from shooting. You can also pick up a Winchester Model 1892 lever-gun that shoots the same caliber with the same load.

 

[merl67]

Gary
Like you I have had little problem with loading the 32-20 with my Lee dies. I also load for the 30-30 which some claim can be difficult. Granted my setup is far from sophisticated I have a old 3 hole Lee and two single presses, but they serve my needs just fine...

 

[Drm50]

I been loading 25/20 & 32/20 for years and have never had any trouble. There are very many run of the mill standard and military cartridges I didn’t load for. I’ve always used a single stage press for everything and had trouble with nothing. I did get a bad set of 22Hornet dies, my first and last set of Lee Dies. Also a bad set of Hornady New Dimension in 7x57, my last set of those also. It don’t pay to buy cheap dies. It also doesn’t pay to get in a hurry.

 

[tripledipper]

Thank you all for your expertise and suggestions.

 

[KEN L]

I have acquired a revolver which is a 32-20 caliber. The serial # is 74051, the last Patent number on the 4-1/4" barrel says 01DEC17 and 32 WCF CTG, the serial number is on the cylinder and butt. The grips are wood with a gold S&W emblem. Without a picture, this is a shooter grade, the cylinder, frame and barrel have lost much bluing, barrel rifling looks good and cylinder locks up fairly tight. Is this an I-frame or a K-frame? Approximate value? I thought this was a 32long, not a 32-20, did not do my homework and don't wish to keep it. Should I put it for sale/trade on the forum with pictures? Would be glad to trade for a 32long of equivalent value or sell it outright.

Based on your serial number, it most likely shipped in the latter part of 1917, possibly November, but only a letter of authenticity would tell you for sure.

 

[Scharfschuetzer]

They are fun revolvers and well worth owning and shooting.

Mine prefers 115 grain cast bullets at about 800 fps using Unique or 231 powder. It's a mid 20s production revolver. It's as accurate as almost any of my other Smiths.

 

[JP@AK]

The serial # is 74051 . . . 32 WCF CTG, the serial number is on the cylinder and butt.

32 W.C.F. CTG is the correct marking at that serial number. That cartridge designation was used from about 1913 until 1922.

the last Patent number on the 4-1/4" barrel says 01DEC17

Two things here:

1. The barrel length is either 4" or 5", since S&W did not use barrels of 1/4" increments on this model. They did on the I frames and on the early .357 Magnums, not on the K frame M&P.
2. That is not a correct patent date for an M&P. The last date for that serial number on a .32-20 HE should be Dec 29, 1914.

Is this an I-frame or a K-frame?

As others have mentioned, your revolver was built on the K frame.

As for the serial number at 74051, 1917 is a good estimate for the year. I have confirmed the following numbers in that range:
70523 - October, 1917
72535 - October, 1917
75092 - June, 1917
76289 - June, 1917
77719 - November, 1917

As you can see, they did not ship in serial order.

 

[CptCurl]

The .32-20, AKA .32 Winchester Center Fire, AKA .32 WCF is a K frame Military & Police revolver. You can shoot .32 S&W Long in it but accuracy may be affected. In the condition you describe, I'd put it in the $500 +/- range. You may be able to get someone to trade a .32 Hand Ejector for it but if it is in the same condition as your .32-20, it wouldn't be an advantageous trade for you. Put it in the classifieds and sell it outright.

Woah! I haven't tried this suggestion, but I do know that the .32-20 is much larger at the head than the .32 Long. I would be worried about split cases and other fireworks.

Curl

 

[tripledipper]

With all your help, I finally know what I have, a 5"barrel .32WCF M&P K-frame revolver, probably shipped in Nov.17. Not meant for me, in the classifieds shortly.

 

[glowe]

. . . barrel says 01DEC17 . . .

The last patent date on your revolver should read Dec. 29. 14.

Based on your serial number, it most likely shipped in the latter part of 1917, possibly November, but only a letter of authenticity would tell you for sure.

The 32-20 M&P shipped all over the place. Guns in the serial number range near the OP's shipped anywhere from 1916 to 1918 in my database and not in any date order. I believe it was mostly because the demand for this caliber was very low compared to its sibling 38 Special and inventory was likely very high.

32 W.C.F. CTG is the correct marking at that serial number. That cartridge designation was used from about 1913 until 1922.

You are correct on the stamping. I simply looked up my 32 Winchester guns and have one in the low 70,000 range that shipped in 1916 and had a 32 Winchester stamped barrel. Most likely the factory found some extra barrels or the service department returned excess inventory. My notes pretty much match yours in that the factory officially had three caliber stampings over the 40 year production run.

32-20 Barrel Stampings
From 1899 until 1913 - 32 Winchester CTG
From 1914 until 1922 - 32 W.C.F. CTG
From about 1922-23 until the end of production (1940) - 32-20 CTG

Woah! I haven't tried this suggestion, but I do know that the .32-20 is much larger at the head than the .32 Long. I would be worried about split cases and other fireworks.

I have to admit that I did this unintentionally with the first 32-20 I bought. Grabbed the gun and ammo and went off to the range. Shot 6 times and went to empty the brass and about 8-9 pieces of brass fell out. Not only did the split, but part of the case separated from the base a couple times. Definitely would not recommended doing this.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Just so no one gets the wrong impression, I didn't say he "should" shoot .32 Long in it, only that it "could" be done. As others have said, I don't recommend shooting it with .32 Long.

 

[JP@AK]

32-20 Barrel Stampings
From 1899 until 1913 - 32 Winchester CTG
From 1914 until 1922 - 32 W.C.F. CTG
From about 1922-23 until the end of production (1940) - 32-20 CTG

Gary
I think that is correct. The first change (to W.C.F.) "officially" took place in 1914. However, a few examples have turned up that shipped in 1913, so at least some units got the new stamp earlier than we had thought for a long time.

Incidentally, there is good evidence that production of the .32-20 HE actually stopped in c. 1929. Inventory was so high that the model remained in the catalog until 1940. It is certainly possible that some of the guns that shipped in the 1930s were assembled from parts on hand, since once in a while one shows up with correctly numbered stocks that cannot be dated earlier than 1930. My suspicion, however, is that most of the .32-20 units that shipped in the '30s were simply pulled from the vault. That would explain why most of them have 1920s style stocks on them.

 

[Drm50]

32 longs in 32/20 will split cases about every time. I think Barnes in Cartridges of the World, put that little tidbit in his book. In some of the Spanish knock offs of HEs the chambers are sloppy enough to blow dirt fire and brass all over.
Most guns will detonate anything that will hang from chamber. Not good policy in my book.

 

[Muley Gil]

I have related this story before, but I have worked two murders where the weapon used was a .32-20 revolver loaded with .32 Long cartridges. They worked well enough to kill two folks.

 

[dwh]

I believe shooting 32S&W/32longs in the 32-20s is why we see so many with bulge barrels.