357 Ammo for Lightweight Snubby

[Boscobarbell]

Hey, all. With the summer months coming shortly, I've been considering what my EDC choices will be with the lighter clothing choices (i.e. shorts with no belt, etc).

I usually carry a stainless steel 357 on most winter days, and I've grown more and more respectful of that round of late. I hate to admit that I sold off a 360pd a while back because I grew frustrated in my search for ammo that was both a) effective and b) not so powerful that follow-up shots were all but impossible.

So I'm thinking again about getting a snubbie, preferably in 357. (I've considered getting an LCR in 327 for the extra round, but I'm not a big fan of Ruger in general and would be more inclined to get another J-frame.) So I figured I'd ask you guys if you know of any 357 ammo that is suitable for a lightweight snub; I'm inclined to think that the Golden Sabers or the Corbon DPX rounds may fit the bill? Looking for any personal experience people may have with those, of if any other ammo choices may be more appropriate.

Thanks!!

p.s. And, just to preempt any such suggestion, I'm not interested in carrying 38 special. I'm just not impressed with the performance in sub-3" barrels (inadequate/inconsistent expansion with most JHP rounds, and no interest in carrying wadcutters).

 

[326MOD10]

Might see if you can locate any of the Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 round.

I have used it in a 640, and yes I know not the same, but the recoil wasn't any more noticeable than the .38 version.

 

[1sailor]

I am also a fan of the 130gr GD's. I carry an M&P340 which is almost as light as they come and even though I reload I try to keep my loads within the same velocity range as the factory loads. Easy to shoot but after several rounds you will start to feel it.

 

[cd228]

I had a 340 I pulled from the line up because both .357 and .38 158gr would jump crimp and lock up the gun. It was with cheaper ammo. I'd go for the heavier framed (aluminum or steel) J frames.

I'd recomend that you relook the .38 SPC +p Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel Load, it was created to address effectiveness out of a short barrel. Per Speer, it's going 860 fps out of a 2 inch barrell

On the .357 side, you could try the Gold Dot 135 Short barrel load. It's listed as 990 fps out of a 2 inch barrell.

You could try the Winchester 110 gr JHPs as well.

 

[Onomea]

You might take a look at Buffalo Bore. They have low recoil, low flash .357 designed for snubbies.

 

[Boscobarbell]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

Unfortunately, the Gold Dot Short Barrel 357 has been unobtanium for a while.

 

[Boscobarbell]

I'd recomend that you relook the .38 SPC +p Speer Gold Dot 135gr Short Barrel Load, it was created to address effectiveness out of a short barrel. Per Speer, it's going 860 fps out of a 2 inch barrell

Thanks for the response.

The Speer 38 is a perfect example of how inconsistent 38 is out of short barrels. Take a look at the gel tests by both Gun Sam and the "Discreet Defender" guy...in both tests, you had failure to expand. (I can give you links if you'd like.). It is precisely ammo like that has convinced me that 38 is just not the best choice for self defense.

 

[SnidelyWhiplash]

Try the Winchester 110gr. JHP. It's the .357 version of the old .38 Special 110 grain +P+ "Treasury Load". It's very controllable. My Python snubby loves it.

 

[Boscobarbell]

You might take a look at Buffalo Bore. They have low recoil, low flash .357 designed for snubbies.

The CorBon I mentioned is, in essence, the exact duplicate of one of those BB ammos:

BUFFALO-BARNES LEAD-FREE 357 Mag Low Flash-Short Barrel Pistol & Handgun Ammunition

My only concern is that what BB considers "low recoil" is what most would consider "terribly punishing."

 

[Boscobarbell]

Try the Winchester 110gr. JHP. It's the .357 version of the old .38 Special 110 grain +P+ "Treasury Load". It's very controllable. My Python snubby loves it.

Thanks. You're the second person to mention it, so I took a look at a couple of gel tests on the round. Unfortunately, the round gets TERRIBLE penetration, which is strange for a 357 load. Based on what I'm seeing, I just wouldn't be confident with it.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVJJH6sdBqw[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDlu2zGwUsM[/ame]

 

[cd228]

Thanks for the response.

The Speer 38 is a perfect example of how inconsistent 38 is out of short barrels. Take a look at the gel tests by both Gun Sam and the "Discreet Defender" guy...in both tests, you had failure to expand. (I can give you links if you'd like.). It is precisely ammo like that has convinced me that 38 is just not the best choice for self defense.

Did they use the proper test protocol and Gel? Most of the youtubers I've seen don't test properly. If the gel is clear and there is no BB in it, it's not valid. The FBI actually found that a 10% variation in the gelatin can greatly skew the results. They did alot of gun fight analysis and autopsy work to come up with the test protocols. The agencies that helped design and use the round have not had significant issues. You can FOIA the FBI firearms division or NYPD for legitimate tests.

you might be better off looking at what rounds are available to you and then finding legit tests. If you can't source sufficient quantities of .357 that meet your needs, you might want to look a compact semi auto.

 

[Boscobarbell]

Did they use the proper test protocol and Gel? Most of the youtubers I've seen don't test properly. If the gel is clear and there is no BB in it, it's not valid. The FBI actually found that a 10% variation in the gelatin can greatly skew the results. They did alot of gun fight analysis and autopsy work to come up with the test protocols. The agencies that helped design and use the round have not had significant issues. You can FOIA the FBI firearms division or NYPD for legitimate tests.

They used Clear Ballistic gel (as I do when I do my own testing, as it is temperature stable and thus easy to handle). And, yes, it is not identical to the FBI medium…which, if anything, is far LESS forgiving to ammo. So those tests—which showed penetration at just at or below the minimum depths for the FBI protocols, would have performed far WORSE.

I haven’t checked in a while, but last I looked the FBI (or other agencies) have never approved the “light recoil” or “short barrel” versions of common rounds.

 

[cd228]

They used Clear Ballistic gel (as I do when I do my own testing, as it is temperature stable and thus easy to handle). And, yes, it is not identical to the FBI medium…which, if anything, is far LESS forgiving to ammo. So those tests—which showed penetration at just at or below the minimum depths for the FBI protocols, would have performed far WORSE.

I haven’t checked in a while, but last I looked the FBI (or other agencies) have never approved the “light recoil” or “short barrel” versions of common rounds.

Do a FOIA or request the data via agency channels. I was surprised at the amount of info they can provide.

 

[cd228]

I haven’t checked in a while, but last I looked the FBI (or other agencies) have never approved the “light recoil” or “short barrel” versions of common rounds.

Most agencies moved away from short barrel revolvers before the short barrel loads became prominent. I don't recall the FBI authorizing many revolver rounds after they they switched to semi-autos.

 

[Boscobarbell]

Most agencies moved away from short barrel revolvers before the short barrel loads became prominent. I don't recall the FBI authorizing many revolver rounds after they they switched to semi-autos.

My agency (DHS) and many others never abandoned revolvers as backup weapons, however (typically purchased by the individual agent vs being issued by Uncle Sam), which is why the approved ammo list was always kept up-to-date.

 

[1sailor]

Unlike cd228 (post #4) I've never had an issue with rounds in my M&P340 jumping crimp. However, I do reload my own so that may have something to do with it. Actually, in the more than ten years I've carried and fired this gun I've never had one jump crimp.

 

[bushmaster1313]

Why not a hot +P+ .38 Special

And remember, the round that encourages you to practice the most will be the most effective should you ever need it, especially for follow-up shots.

 

[Boscobarbell]

Why not a hot +P+ .38 Special

See my comments above. I've never seen one that performs consistently in gel tests out of short-barrel revolvers.

I, no doubt, could be missing one (or more), but all my searching has only yielded disappointment so far.

 

[cd228]

So I went through my book shelf to try and find some more info for you. Grant Cunningham in his book on defensive revolvers recommends against the .357, but says of the .357 rounds that the 135 GDHP is the way to go. He did recomend 135-158 for .38 +P specifying the GDHP and the Lead Semi Wad Cutter.

Ed Lovette likes the .357, he mentions the 110JHP and showed a picture of the Cor Bon round. He also liked the MAGSAFE rounds and claimed his snubnose where filled with MAGSAFE PMAX.

Cirillo mentions the 125 gr in .357, but he didn't talk about the .357 alot.

You could also reach out to Daryl Bolke, I've corresponded with him, he is very knowledgeable and easy to talk to. The P&S crew (Matt Landfair) have been talking alot about revolvers lately too.

I thought Dr Roberts had written something about revovlver cartridges but I couldn't find it. He's usually pretty good and he has been tied in with alot of organizations.

Honestly though, if you have a list of authorized off duty rounds, I'd start there. You could also contact the vendors. The ATK LE website has data for the older cartridges (not the short barrel) but they might have info on the newer stuff upon request.

 

[cd228]

Unlike cd228 (post #4) I've never had an issue with rounds in my M&P340 jumping crimp. However, I do reload my own so that may have something to do with it. Actually, in the more than ten years I've carried and fired this gun I've never had one jump crimp.

One round was Magtech and the other was armscor. Neither had a noticeable crimp and both where made during the ammo shortage. Neither where defensive loads. Both of the rounds where in the fifth chamber.

When I hand load .357 I like a nice roll crimp into a bullet with a crimping groove.

Crimp jump is a known issue for the 340s, the scandium cylinder models 340 PD used to be marked 125gr and above. (Which is why I was suprised when it happened with 158s).