.357 bullets for deer - experience?

[mtgianni]

I shot a mule deer buck in 1985 with 125 gr jacketed bullet. I was 40-50 feet above it on a ridgetop, the bullet hit between the shoulder blades and it remains the most blood shot animal I have ever dressed.
I have taken several deer with a 185 gr rf bullet but they have been launched with a Rossi 92 at much faster than revolver speeds. Usually down within 20 feet. I would trust it over the 150's.

 

[Drm50]

I don't know where the 38s-357s were hiding. I've killed at least one deer with about everything but 25acp-32acp& 38/380s. What has always puzzled me is gun scribes will write up a pistol as a lightning bolt killer of everything known to man but put it in a carbine and it's barely got power to push bullet out the barrel. That is according to them.
That brings me to 357 & 357max both I consider light for deer but you have to consider the Win 350 Legend. It's not much different than 357s
but the hopala going with it is magnum. If one is going to sit on a stand and wait for a shot all this bullet stuff is a waste. If you are capable of hitting the zone it doesn't matter what you use. It's whole different story if you are stalking and shooting jumped deer. It will be close range and flat out speeds. That's where knock down comes in. It doesn't matter pistol or rifle. The big argument on 223/ 5.56 as deer cartridge is subject to same rules. Off the stump it don't matter, a 22Lr gets the job done. Stalking more than not involves shooting running game and one should be toting a cartridge that is up to the task.
Some say it's unethical to shoot running game. Makes me wonder how much hunting have they actually done.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

My experience with the .357 on deer is limited to three kills. All succumbed to a well-placed 173 grain 358429 (Keith's bullet) over 14 grains of AA-9. None of them went more than 10 steps. Have shot 0 deer with any jacketed .357 bullet. I'll admit to questioning the above mentioned bullet for a quick kill. I knew they would drop and die within a reasonable distance, but have to say I was pleasantly surprised at how rapidly they went down. I guess my takeaway is that a good wide nose cast swc at top load velocity from a .357 is not to be taken lightly. Two of these kills were from a 6" pre-27 the other from a 4 5/8" Ruger flattop.

 

[K Frame Keith]

I know OP is discussing handgun hunting, but how about the ballistics of the .357 out of a rifle length barrel? Is anyone familiar with the results of the handgun vs. rifle ballistics of the .357?

 

[Old Corp]

I know OP is discussing handgun hunting, but how about the ballistics of the .357 out of a rifle length barrel? Is anyone familiar with the results of the handgun vs. rifle ballistics of the .357?

I had mentioned that up 'til the current, the only deer I'd taken with anything in .357 was with a handy little Rossi 92 16" carbine. It was a 6 pt. Whitetail buck facing head-on at about 50 yards. Shot it center-of-chest with a Barnes factory .357, 140 gr TSX all-copper HP. He did a back-flip and was DRT. Seem to recall reading somewhere that this load would do around ~1900 fps out of a carbine or rifle length barrel.

Dressing out the buck inside a lighted building that evening (it was a late afternoon shot), showed internal damage consistent with very many deer I'd dressed shot with various common centerfire rounds such as .270/7-08/ .308, etc. I was very surprised.

There was no exit and I looked hard for the spent bullet, but must've missed it in the guts somewhere - never did find it (and was tired!)

So, one deer down DRT may not mean much statistically - but I wouldn't take the capabilities of a .357 carbine lightly inside 100-125 yards with someone who knows how to shoot.

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

I put down two deer that were hit by cars. Model 19 four inch with 38 Special +P 125 grain JHP. Average deer and were 125# or so.

 

[Yendor357]

357 Mag, 158 JHPs out of my Marlin 1894 are doing 1800 fps per my Garmin Xero. From a tree stand that combo is very lethal. You have to watch where you hit them because they'll ruin a lot of meat if you hit something solid.

I'm a big fan of the Ruger made Marlin, and Marlin 1894s. Add a peep sight for easier accuracy than the semi buck horn; not as much bulk as a scope. My old Marlin with no safety and a Lyman 66LA Will put 3 shots under 2 inches at 100 yards if you do your part. I think more accurate than the 44s, but that could just be me. Short, Light, Deadly. Don't let those Red Rider looks fool you.

 

[Old Corp]

I'm a big fan of the Ruger made Marlin, and Marlin 1894s. Add a peep sight for easier accuracy than the semi buck horn; not as much bulk as a scope. My old Marlin with no safety and a Lyman 66LA Will put 3 shots under 2 inches at 100 yards if you do your part. I think more accurate than the 44s, but that could just be me. Short, Light, Deadly. Don't let those Red Rider looks fool you.

Much could be said of the Rossi M92. I'm no fan of factory 'buckhorn' sights and find them pretty crude. I changed my 16" Rossi to a peep rear and small Hi-Viz front and the combo is hard to beat.
Quite a bit longer sight radius, better in low light, and pretty fast acquisition . Overall, the Marlin is better quality - but other than fencepost-grade wood, I've been quite pleased my little Brazilian levergun.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

I don't know, the .357 might be a little under gunned?

Around 1958, my father went up into the hills of Redding Calif.
and picked up a revolver, that had just killed a deer, a few months befor his arrival.
The lady that shot the deer from her porch, told him it was in good working order
and he bought it, to add to his gun collection, after hearing about the weapon from, fellow hunters.

I now own this revolver and show it to friends and tell them that this is the real deal.
It is an original Black powder, Navy Colt in 36 caliber, that uses round lead balls, to do its work.

Placement, is King.

Elmer Keith would tell you that a round lead ball was a most excellent killer.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

I think it's a matter of where you hit them. I've noticed a shoulder shot directly through the scapula will drop them. And obviously a neck or spine shot will too. I try not to hit those areas as it tends to damage meat……. But more importantly I want to hear the story behind the 2" 34????????? Lol

Was coming home one evening(daylight)and bumped a big doe with the right front corner of my Mustang. She pinwheeled into the ditch and stood there dazed or hurt. I shot her just above the eyes in her forehead......Dropped like a rock.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
Cast bullets usually are best UNLESS you don't want over penatration.
My Dad's last deer [in his 80th year] was with a Leverevolution 357
out of my S&W 5inch TRR8.
The deer was stopped but required a finisher ,at 50 yds.
A better load would have been a hard cast with a large flat nose 60% to 70% at top load into the shoulder to break them down.
They don't run far if the front legs don't work well.

 

[white cloud]

Some asked about the .357 in a carbine. I have killed a number of S.C. deer with .357 carbines using the 158 grain Hornady XTP hollow point at 1750 FPS. I guess the average range to be 60 yards and average weight to be 135 pounds. All have been double lung shots, all have been pass throughs, none have required a second shot and all deer shot were recovered. A 16" Marlin 1894 makes for a very handy and effective deer rifle where I hunt. The rifle/revolver combo shooting the same cartridge really appeals to me.

 

[max503]

In all my years hunting I've only had one boolit fail me and that was a commercially loaded 12 gauge slug. For some reason it deformed on the outside of a deer and did not penetrate at all. That was one of the strangest things I've ever seen.

 

[Old Corp]

Just a small update:
I've continued to try a few different hunting-appropriate loads. Right now, I'm using quite a bit of AA powders since that what I have most of.

Shooting the Python from a rest at paper at 25 yards with upper-level charges of AA-7 have observed the following. (And no, I'm not a caliper-carrying group measurer.... )

The Everglades brand 'bulk' 158 gr. JHP did very well - about about 3.5 inches. I'm sure it could be better - as usual the real issue is the nut behind the backstrap.

The Hornady 158 gr XTP did just a little better - closer to 3"- 3.25".

Had some factory ammo by Speer, not sure if it's made anymore - 170 gr. DCSP (Dual Core Soft Point). Large meplat and actually made for hunting. It did much the same as the previous 158's, about 3"-3.5". Recoil was not as stout as I predicted.

Real surprise came with the GT Bullets cast 160 LSWC-HP. It hovered around 2.25 inches consistently, with no signs of leading.

Using that bullet, I hit 6" steel plates consistently at ~50 yards.
I was initially dubious about this load because the bullet had to be crimped over the driving band shoulder. Crimping in the normal crimp groove made the COAL too much for the Python's chamber/cylinder. I also reduced the powder charge a bit to account for decreased powder space.

So, my scientific assessment: this Python was made in 1979.
Elmer K. was still alive in 1979.
Therefore, the Python obviously prefers Keith-type LSWC's.
There..... - I'm a ballistician.

Back to reality, I do believe any of these bullets would work for the intended purpose - small - to- medium Whitetails (avg. 120 lbs) at the ranges I encounter.

Thanks to all. I'll probably continue to pick away at this in an attempt to get even better groups with some load adjustment. For now - I'd settle on that 160 gr LSWC-HP.

 

[Drm50]

I have no idea how many deer I've shot. I know from personal experience that bang flops are not the rule unless it's a head shot. I have shot deer that didn't know I was present with 12g slug at 20yds, classic heart shot through & through that ran 50yds and only stopped when it ran head on into a tree. Many shot on the wing with rifles and hit hart only to have them run several hundred yards. Generally these lay down and never get up. By same token I have seen deer shot to pieces with several fatal hits that manage to flee the scene. I'm not talking bad hits. Shooting dear or any other larger game is not like a Spaghetti Western where every body is shot stone cold dead with one shot. Animals charged up on adrenaline are still in survival mode, till their oil pressure gives out.

 

[Nevada Ed]

If any of those lead .357 bullets are not doing the job for you......

just slip them into a 35 Remington and give them a go.

2200fps , should do the job.

 

[ruger 22]

I know it is very satisfying to load your own but these days there is a very fine factory load in 357, PMC Bronze with a 158 grain JSP having a a listed MV of 1471fps. I no longer hunt but at the range at 50 yards a 6" circle is no problem with my 4" Model 28. It is a very stout load and lots of fun to shoot in limited quantities.

 

[Old Corp]

If any of those lead .357 bullets are not doing the job for you......

just slip them into a 35 Remington and give them a go.

2200fps , should do the job.

Thanks Ed - I am fresh out of .35 Remington guns, and would have to resort to my .35 Whelen, a T/C Encore in S/S.

I will occasionally hunt with it, but to be honest - have found it a bit boring. It actually slams the deer down in-place, which I know is supposed to be a good thing.
I'm in an area with an increasing Black Bear population, so may be taking that along a bit more often while still hunting with a handgun.

Been in the game long enough as a handgun deer hunter to enjoy traditional handguns with open sights and love the challenge.

 

[stansdds]

Real surprise came with the GT Bullets cast 160 LSWC-HP. It hovered around 2.25 inches consistently, with no signs of leading.

Using that bullet, I hit 6" steel plates consistently at ~50 yards.
I was initially dubious about this load because the bullet had to be crimped over the driving band shoulder. Crimping in the normal crimp groove made the COAL too much for the Python's chamber/cylinder. I also reduced the powder charge a bit to account for decreased powder space.

So, my scientific assessment: this Python was made in 1979.
Elmer K. was still alive in 1979.
Therefore, the Python obviously prefers Keith-type LSWC's.
There..... - I'm a ballistician.

LOL! Yes, you are now a highly qualified ballistics expert. In all seriousness, this does point out the concept of a cast bullet, being of correct diameter and of appropriate hardness for the pressure and burning rate of the chosen powder, matching or outperforming jacketed bullets. I would much rather have a good cast bullet load that delivers 2 inch groups at 25 yards than a jacketed bullet load that delivers 3.5 inch groups at 25 yards.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It has to be great to be in an area, where you can set up and be able to have the deer, come to you,
and deceide if it is what you will be happy collecting.

In N/E Nevada, one needes to do a lot of time "Glassing" and driving into areas, that you have learned, hold deer, over the years and hope that they will be there.

Range fires, water, food and shelter, can change each season, keeping hunters on their toes.

Good luck filling your tag, when you get one.

 

[38SPL HV]

11.0 grs 2400 behind a Keith 170 gr SWC (358429) in 38 Spl cases ("38-44") has dropped more than a few Whitetails…

 

[Old Corp]

11.0 grs 2400 behind a Keith 170 gr SWC (358429) in 38 Spl cases ("38-44") has dropped more than a few Whitetails…

Thanks sir - I've actually loaded that bullet, except in HP form in .38, intended for a S&W Heavy Duty 4". In HP form, it's just a tad lighter, so a wee bit more 2400 was put behind it.

Shoots exactly to POA in that ol' .38 HD, and I like that it shares a similarity with the 'Hi-Speed' loads those guns were designed for. And, it does fine in most of my .357's, even though I've not tried it in my Python yet.

Thanks for the good suggestion.

 

[38SPL HV]

Thanks sir - I've actually loaded that bullet, except in HP form in .38, intended for a S&W Heavy Duty 4". In HP form, it's just a tad lighter, so a wee bit more 2400 was put behind it.

Shoots exactly to POA in that ol' .38 HD, and I like that it shares a similarity with the 'Hi-Speed' loads those guns were designed for. And, it does fine in most of my .357's, even though I've not tried it in my Python yet.

Thanks for the good suggestion.

…it's my go to round for my Ruger 4 5/8" Blackhawk…sighted in point of aim 25 yds.