357 Bunny Loads for old man

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drayks

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I reloaded several different weights of UNIQUE to give me a 357 Mag load of 1050fps with 6 grains of powder, and 1300fps with 7 grains of powder for my 6" barrel Model 66 with jacketed 125gn Hornady XTP bullets. It did look quite odd to see my Magnetospeed chronograph hanging under the barrel. The powder load is quite a bit lighter than manuals show it should be. I used a taper crimp on the light bullets and low recoil.
My next project will be to load 38 SPL with 158 gn Lead bullets for my model 14 with 6" barrel to achieve 800fps with Trail Boss powder. Anyone tried the TB loads?
 
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I loaded different powder in 357mag barss for soft fun shooting our girls to step up to after several years of 22lr pistol shooting . Wad cutters was an early favorite in the 740fps range But I'll have to hunt for that load info as that was 20 years ago .
 
I can't help you with Trail Boss loads but I can give you my Pet 38 Special with Unique ... I see you have Unique !
158 gr. cast SWC load with ... Unique .
4.2 grs. Unique will give you 800 fps .
You may need to adjust this slightly slightly, +/- 0.1 gr. , for your gun ...
but it will put you in the 800 fps ballpark .

Loading 38 spcl / cast lead / Unique since 1967 ...
I have tried a lot of loads !
Gary
 
gwpercle said:
I can't help you with Trail Boss loads but I can give you my Pet 38 Special with Unique ... I see you have Unique !
158 gr. cast SWC load with ... Unique .
4.2 grs. Unique will give you 800 fps .
You may need to adjust this slightly slightly, +/- 0.1 gr. , for your gun ...
but it will put you in the 800 fps ballpark .

Loading 38 spcl / cast lead / Unique since 1967 ...
I have tried a lot of loads !
Gary
Click to expand...
Why all the series of dots in each sentence?
 
I have never used Trail Boss and I no longer use Unique. I have used my standard .38 spl plinking loads of a 158 gr cast RN bullet at 800 fps with various fast burning powders out of a 4" barrel to hunt Rabbits and Squirrels with one of my .357 revolvers.
 
Model19man said:
Most wadcutters are 148 grains. Never seen any 158 grains. Are you sure?
Click to expand...

Not sure who you were replying too. I don't really see mention of a 158gr wadcutter but maybe I missed it.

There are heavier WC bullets. Or at least there are molds for bullet casters that make heavier wadcutters. I use an IDEAL 358432 which is an atypical wadcutter as the nose is long and outside the case. Mine cast out as 161gr.

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Any .38 load.......

..is good in a .357 case. And I've gone lower, than recommended but don't come close to sticking a bullet in the barrel.

Some say you have to adjust the powder charge for the longer .357 case, but to me it is inconsequential as the little bit of extra length is only there to prevent loading .357s in a .38.

I was sighting in my 686 at the range today and shot nothing but .38 wadcutter loads. I can still shoot the full bore stuff, but I find that it isn't quite as much fun as it used to be. I'm happy just to shoot.
 
rwsmith said:
..is good in a .357 case. And I've gone lower, than recommended but don't come close to sticking a bullet in the barrel.

Some say you have to adjust the powder charge for the longer .357 case, but to me it is inconsequential as the little bit of extra length is only there to prevent loading .357s in a .38.

I was sighting in my 686 at the range today and shot nothing but .38 wadcutter loads. I can still shoot the full bore stuff, but I find that it isn't quite as much fun as it used to be. I'm happy just to shoot.
Click to expand...
I generally agree - as long as you aren't loading MINIMUM charge weights for 38 special loads in 357 magnum cases.

The extra length of the 357 case gives more empty space under the bullet. This extra volume can significantly reduce pressure and velocity. There is the distinct possibility that the pressure may be TOO low - causing a bullet to stop before exiting the barrel.

But that should only be a concern if you use the absolute minimum amount of powder for a 38 special load in the 357 magnum case.

Even just a little "bump" of .1gr above the minimum 38 special charge should be enough to prevent this kind of problem.

IMO, I will only load mid-range 38 specials in a 357 magnum case. Most of my reloads are mid-range. I don't feel the need to load barn-burners, but I don't feel the need for bunny-fart loads either.

Middle of the road seems like the best course to me.

Better safe than sorry.

But that's just my opinion and YMMV.
 
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BC38 said:
It is called an ellipsis and in online forums it is meant to signify a long pause "for effect" - or to indicate an unfinished thought - or a sentence "trailing off" (kind of being left hanging).
It is a stylistic thing.
Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

It explains it pretty well...
 
My standard loads in .357 magnum:

1. Range/practice: 6.5 grains Unique, 158 cast SWC.
2. Field/hunting: 7.0 grains Unique, 158 cast SWC or 150 cast SWC-HP.

In .38 Special:

1. Range/practice: 4.5 grains Unique, 158 cast SWC.
2. Standard pressure field load: 5.0 grains Unique, 158 cast SWC.
3. +P load: 5.4 grains Unique, 158 cast SWC or 150 cast SWC-HP.

Tried a lot of other combinations over the past ~50 years but none have done any better or been more consistently useful for all purposes.

I haven't come across any bunnies who would know the difference, but I have eaten a lot of bunnies.
 
In my 686 6" revolver with Trail Boss and a 158 Lwc at 1.48" OAL;

TB at 4.0 grs gave me 755fps.
TB at 3.5 grs gave me 700 fp.

Try a light and medium crimp on the case to see it it helps with accuracy.
Good shooting.
 
glenwolde said:
Not sure who you were replying too. I don't really see mention of a 158gr wadcutter but maybe I missed it.

There are heavier WC bullets. Or at least there are molds for bullet casters that make heavier wadcutters. I use an IDEAL 358432 which is an atypical wadcutter as the nose is long and outside the case. Mine cast out as 161gr.

attachment.php
Click to expand...
Lyman made the 358432 in two weights , 140 grain and 160 grain , same number !
Both discontinued by Lyman but NOE makes the 358432 - 160 gr WC . I have this design to be the most accurate cast wadcutter in all my 38's and 357's ...it's an accuracy sleeper that few realize is out there . When NOE started making 4 cavity 358432 - 160 WC moulds I ordered one so fast it made my head spin ... the single cavity Lyman mould was so slow ...
but I just love this bullet ... I don't cast much of anything else !

If you can put your hands on one of these ... try them out ,
the accuracy just may surprise you ... realy like the 160 grain weight !
Gary
 
My bunny fart loads for 357 Magnum was 357 Magnum brass, CCI 500 or Winchester SP primers, 148 grain commercial hard cast DEWC, and 4.0 grains of Bullseye. This combination produced 949 fps from my 6 inch barreled Ruger GP-100.
 
In post 18 , Gary mentioned the ideal / Lyman 358432 mold and the stellar accuracy . I got one from a forum member that's a 4 cavity . The incredible accuracy is hard to describe . I did find that I had to reduce my std load using a 158 gr swc by one half grain , Using WSF my std load has always been 7.5 grs using a 158 gr cast bullet , with the wadcutter I had to drop it back to 7.0 . 7.5 grs of WSF gave sticky extraction . Regards Paul
 
Not trying to be argumentative......

BC38 said:
I generally agree - as long as you aren't loading MINIMUM charge weights for 38 special loads in 357 magnum cases.

The extra length of the 357 case gives more empty space under the bullet. This extra volume can significantly reduce pressure and velocity. There is the distinct possibility that the pressure may be TOO low - causing a bullet to stop before exiting the barrel.

All powders don't light easily, are position sensitive or don't handle reducing well.

But that should only be a concern if you use the absolute minimum amount of powder for a 38 special load in the 357 magnum case.

Even just a little "bump" of .1gr above the minimum 38 special charge should be enough to prevent this kind of problem.

IMO, I will only load mid-range 38 specials in a 357 magnum case. Most of my reloads are mid-range. I don't feel the need to load barn-burners, but I don't feel the need for bunny-fart loads either.

Middle of the road seems like the best course to me.

Better safe than sorry.

But that's just my opinion and YMMV.
Click to expand...

...but my mileage varies. I can certainly appreciate the stance of staying with the book data, but I've made a specialty out of much reduced loads in both pistol and rifle. The relationship of powder volume to the internal volume of both the .38 and the .357 is tiny. I get velocities greater than 700 fps depending on bullet weight, with minimal loads and have never come close to sticking a bullet in the barrel. But I do check the loads carefully, first on the target and second, with a chrono. If you aren't careful in this business you need a new hobby.

Just as a ferinstance, I've loaded 100 grain bullets in 30-06 that clocked at 1500 fps that felt like shooting a .22LR. People ask, "why not just get a .22?" I have one, but I'm fascinated by the possibilities in reloading and I love to experiment. I've also experimented with heavy for caliber bullets, like 165 grain lead bullets in 9mm. It's tough getting a decent powder load along with a big bullet and the limited OAL, but my light loads with Acc#7 were tack drivers at close range. They are just too much trouble to get right to make a habit out of reloading them all the time or I would shoot them a lot more.

Again, I'm very careful and have never stuck a bullet in the barrel. The OP asked about bunny fart loads and I'm the king of bunny fartdom. =8^ )
 
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gwpercle said:
Lyman made the 358432 in two weights , 140 grain and 160 grain , same number !
Both discontinued by Lyman but NOE makes the 358432 - 160 gr WC . I have this design to be the most accurate cast wadcutter in all my 38's and 357's ...it's an accuracy sleeper that few realize is out there . When NOE started making 4 cavity 358432 - 160 WC moulds I ordered one so fast it made my head spin ... the single cavity Lyman mould was so slow ...
but I just love this bullet ... I don't cast much of anything else !

If you can put your hands on one of these ... try them out ,
the accuracy just may surprise you ... realy like the 160 grain weight !
Gary
Click to expand...

The NOE is slightly different and I'm not sure why. From the drawing it looks like they changed the crimp groove to a third lube groove. Not that it matters much. A minor thing. Mine is a rather ancient IDEAL 2 cavity. Still makes perfect bullets. Being a two cavity it's not really all that old. 1960's maybe.
 
cowboy4evr said:
In post 18 , Gary mentioned the ideal / Lyman 358432 mold and the stellar accuracy . I got one from a forum member that's a 4 cavity . The incredible accuracy is hard to describe . I did find that I had to reduce my std load using a 158 gr swc by one half grain , Using WSF my std load has always been 7.5 grs using a 158 gr cast bullet , with the wadcutter I had to drop it back to 7.0 . 7.5 grs of WSF gave sticky extraction . Regards Paul
Click to expand...

Just for clarity...

I am assuming that's in .357 not .38 Special.
 
drayks said:
My next project will be to load 38 SPL with 158 gn Lead bullets for my model 14 with 6" barrel to achieve 800fps with Trail Boss powder. Anyone tried the TB loads?
Click to expand...

Do you already have a supply of Trail Boss? It's been generally unavailable for several years now with no sign of being brought back. If you do happen to have a reliable source for it I'd appreciate finding out where to get it.
 
Just have a bit less than 2lbs of TB left.
Fill the case to the base of whatever bullet is being used.
Just use it for the 460 S&W Mag and 458 Win Mag.
Found that to give the best accuracy with TB.
Have about 100+ loaded between the two.
Have read that it might return, but only scammers have it for sale.

TB loads to the left, hand on tight, to the right.

I use BE with 155 Penn PC leads, for the Ladies, in the
'71 DS.
Data not handy now.
I'll be Bach 🎶🎶
 

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TB loads in 38

Thank you for the responses to Bunny loads. I do have (3) 9 oz jugs of TB I got from a guy who was trying it to make subsonic .308 loads. I do have my name on "waiting to be notified" lists when it does become available again. Love the smell of the fired loads.
 
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