.357 cases not resizing properly

[mzimmers]

Hi, all –

This is kind of an odd one, so I'll try my best to be clear.

I recently ran off a batch of .357 reloads. Nothing fancy; just some WCs for target fun.

When I took them to the range, I noticed that some of them (about 1 in 5) wouldn't drop into the cylinder all the way. They stopped about 1/4" from seating.

I took these home, and discovered that the part of the case closest to the head measured about .3830". Just for fun, I tried loading these into my pre-19, my pre-28 and my 27-2 with varying degrees of success. It would seem that the 686 is built to the tightest tolerances.

So: I broke open one of the cartridges and resized it on my Hornady progressive. It came back out at the same .3830" (just that last 1/4" though; the rest was good). It appears that the die can't get to that last little bit of the case for sizing, due to flaring at the mouth die and the space that the shell plate takes up.

Just for fun, I tried sizing the same case in my Hornady single-stage, and those came out to .3805 to .3810. These seemed to load in the 686 OK.

So...I'm trying to figure out what to make of this. First off all, should I be concerned that some of my brass got this "bulged" in the first place? Is it possible that one of my guns has a loose cylinder chamber? Or, is this considered a "normal" amount of expansion?

Second...I'm wondering whether my RCBS dies are less than fully compatible with the Hornady presses in this regard. Has anyone experienced a similar problem?

Not quite sure what's to be done about this...do people actually go to the trouble of keeping brass separate for different handguns in the same caliber?

Any input is welcome...thanks.

 

[mzimmers]

Hi, all –

This is kind of an odd one, so I'll try my best to be clear.

I recently ran off a batch of .357 reloads. Nothing fancy; just some WCs for target fun.

When I took them to the range, I noticed that some of them (about 1 in 5) wouldn't drop into the cylinder all the way. They stopped about 1/4" from seating.

I took these home, and discovered that the part of the case closest to the head measured about .3830". Just for fun, I tried loading these into my pre-19, my pre-28 and my 27-2 with varying degrees of success. It would seem that the 686 is built to the tightest tolerances.

So: I broke open one of the cartridges and resized it on my Hornady progressive. It came back out at the same .3830" (just that last 1/4" though; the rest was good). It appears that the die can't get to that last little bit of the case for sizing, due to flaring at the mouth die and the space that the shell plate takes up.

Just for fun, I tried sizing the same case in my Hornady single-stage, and those came out to .3805 to .3810. These seemed to load in the 686 OK.

So...I'm trying to figure out what to make of this. First off all, should I be concerned that some of my brass got this "bulged" in the first place? Is it possible that one of my guns has a loose cylinder chamber? Or, is this considered a "normal" amount of expansion?

Second...I'm wondering whether my RCBS dies are less than fully compatible with the Hornady presses in this regard. Has anyone experienced a similar problem?

Not quite sure what's to be done about this...do people actually go to the trouble of keeping brass separate for different handguns in the same caliber?

Any input is welcome...thanks.

 

[Bib]

The only thing that comes immediately to mind is: Is there any chance that you put too much crimp on the bullets when you loaded them? If the crimp is set too tight it could grab the bullet before it's fully seated....any further movement will try to crush the entire round...it may bulge at the base then. There is NO WAY you can ever size all the way to the rim....as you said, there's an area at the base of the brass that the die can never contact.

 

[mzimmers]

Hmm...interesting suggestion. I don't think they're too tightly crimped; they're sure not hard to get open with an inertial hammer.

I'll take a look at that, though. Thanks.

 

[Groo01]

Groo here
The dies are different from different makers.
Some size farther down than others.
What you see happens in rifles often.
One rifle chamber differs from another so
you fully size the case rather than neck size.
This will happen in a revolver between
chambers.
It will show up when you are getting close to the top end of the pressure range,usually with
hunting loads.
A good reason to checks your loads before you go into the field.
You can alse get a Lee die to taper crimp and
has a sizer to be sure that the shell is to spec.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

If you have another sizing die for .357 handy, try swapping it with the RCBS die. It is possible that the die is just not sizing the brass properly. What die is in your Hornady single stage press? Since that seemed to do the trick, why not swap it out with the RCBS die?

WG840

 

[Sgt Preston]

Sgt Preston here. I can't really offer any advice on the re-sizing die other than to lower it all the way down until it just touches the shell plate. Then raise it a few thousanths of an inch. BUT one of the lessons I learned (the hard way) is to check each and every round with a "case gage" or the cylinder of your 686. It's much less frustrating, if you find out there is a problem while you are at home reloading rather than when you are at the range. Hope this helps. Sgt Preston USMC LLA

 

[john3136]

I haven't started reloading myself (yet), but I get some reloads from the guy who does them for our club.
Some of his 38special target loads have the projectile seated down in the case which caused a slight bulge that you could just feel.
It was enough to stop them going into my 686. Others using the same load in 686s were not having a problem.
Tried in a variety of other guns: no problems in the club's M14, mixed luck with other 686s (they went into about 3 out of 6 we tried with no problems)

He did 100 in remington brass for me: not one would go in the 686
With winchester brass, about 75% were ok.

My solution: Buy a Model 14. Use the tight ones in the M14 and the rest in the 686

 

[Paul5388]

Sometimes it's necessary to adjust the die so it just touches the shell holder and then tighten it more, with the ram in the down position. The "toggle over" of some presses don't allow a full sizing, so the extra tightening just keeps the press from toggling over. It also compensates for any slack that might be present.

Try sizing as normal and then chamber the empty case. On one that doesn't chamber, try tightening the die more and see if that helps the situation.

 

[mzimmers]

Originally posted by john3136:
Some of his 38special target loads have the projectile seated down in the case which caused a slight bulge that you could just feel.
It was enough to stop them going into my 686.

Yeah, that's not the problem here; the part of the case holding the bullet chambers easily. It's just that last 1/4" the die can't touch.

Paul: you sure about tightening the die further? That's against the die manufacturer's directions.

 

[Paul5388]

Lee says their dies should be tightened further on an RCBS press or any others that toggle over. Even if the other manufacturers don't tell you to adjust that way, the only thing that will happen is to stop the handle from moving as far as normal, but it will give you all of the sizing the die is capable of doing.

 

[max]

I have also had that problem. One of the Lee Factory Crimp dies should correct it.

 

[acl864]

I use a Lee Factory Crimp die on all my 38/357 loads and like it alot, but I'm not sure it will help in this case. It does have a carbide sizing ring built into the base of the die- however like most resizing dies it is offset from the base of the die. The OP was having problems with the last 1/4" of the cartridges being oversized. The FCD won't size down that far due to the offset of the carbide ring.

 

[RidgwayCO]

Steel resizing dies are usually adjusted by screwing them in until they touch the shell holder, and then an additional amount to cover the press linkage. However, your carbide resizing die should be screwed in far enough to get very close to, but not touch, the shell holder when the brass is being resized. The reason is that the carbide insert is strong but brittle, and can be cracked if you're banging it against the shell holder.

It sounds like you have a resizing die that is reforming your brass to the outside edge of the allowable envelope. RCBS will most likely send you a new one if you ask.

 

[Howard B]

I concur w/Sgt Preston about the check gauge. They are cheap and save much frustration. Also, Evolution Gun Works usually has (on back order at present) an undersize 38 SPL die. I am waiting for one in 38, but the 9mm, 40, and 45 dies work great, especially for brass rats like myself.

 

[H Richard]

I also think you may be having trouble because your sizing die is not set to "cam over". I have used RCBS and Lyman dies, and have never had this problem, either in a Dillon or a single stage press.

 

[thomasinaz]

I don't know if you checked this, but is it possible the cases are a little too long and need to be trimmed.

 

[mzimmers]

I did check that; they're well within spec. No, the problem is clearly the 1/4" nearest the head.

What may have happened is that I shot these in a "looser" gun and the sizer just can't get to that last bit of case. I'll probably hold these cases aside for shooting in my other .357s, or just toss them.

 

[rundownfid]

Is it possible that one of the other stations is stopping the travel of your brass in the sizing die. On a Dillon either the seat die or the crimp die could contact the shell holder and stop the upward travel of the ram before the last few fractions of an inch was sized. The reason I suspect this is that you say the single stage die seemed to work fine.

 

[mzimmers]

The single stage die worked a little better, but the case was still fractionally over the spec of .3800. I really think the problem was what I mentioned above.

The question now is, is there a way to restore these, or should I just toss them and start over?