.357 Mag 125 gr Ammo in S&W 66/19

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I've read many articles about even a small diet of 125 gr .357 magnums in a K frame S&W could result in a cracked forcing cone. I've loaded thousands of rounds of .357 Speer 140 gr without any issues and shot at least a 200 rounds of 125 gr factory rounds out of my 4" no dash 66 before reading these claims. Now I limit my magnum loads to 140 gr & 158 gr JHP when shooting any of my 66s. Has anyone here actually had a cracked forcing cone in a S&W 66?
 
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I've seen pictures but not one in person. The crack is usually at the thin spot on the bottom of the forcing cone.

I've read the same thing. Some folks stick with 158s, some with .38 special. Some folks think the cracks result from lead build up inside the forcing cone. I've mostly shot .38s through the ones I've had.
 
I've seen a couple of cracked Model 19s but I don't recall seeing a cracked Model 66. Surprisingly, one of the 19s was used almost exclusively with .38 Special wadcutter target loads.

I don't make it a practice to shoot a lot of full-charge .357 Magnums through my K-frames, and when I do it's always 150-165 grain cast handloads with #2400 powder. Keeping the gun clean seems like a good idea to me. :)
 
This topic constantly surfaces and is often brought up especially when members buy their first K magnum, it's always been the consensus opinion to avoid light magnums but mostly from anecdotal stories.
Yesterday in a thread discussing this same question member Hairtrigger posted a link to the best most thorough explanation of every angle of the issue, how it surfaced , when, why and what the solutions were, it is a long read but the story is not simple to explain.
If you have 20 minutes to read the whole story but it's almost impossible to tell the tale in a short thread except yes avoid light loads.
Enjoy.

The Smith & Wesson L-Frame Story – RevolverGuy.Com
 
I bought my 2 1/2" 66-1 new in 1978 and I have run thousands of rounds of 125 gr. 357 mag ammo (and plenty of 110 gr. too) through it over the decades. The only ill effect has been some end shake which I cured with Brownell's shims. I have read much of the technical explanations on why I should not use the light stuff but my gun has held up well. Maybe I'm just lucky.
 
Just wanna give an update with some quick observations.
I have 19-3's that shipped in May, June and Oct 1969 and one from July 1973.
Have two Model 66, Jan 74 and June 75.
My collection then jumps to a May 79 model 66-1.
I shined a bright flashlight on the cylinder face and spun it,
ALL of them have the gas ring on the cylinder not the yoke.
They all seem to have the same 6 oclock barrel extension cut, the thinnest I found were on a 19-4 from Feb 81, and the very thinnest is on a 66-5 from 1999.

It appears right now that perhaps as the article suggests that only 19-3's and 66's made around 76-77 have the gas ring on the yoke.
 
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I do think the issue of cracking is more likely on the K-frame revolvers that had the gas ring moved to the yoke, which necessitated a significant amount of metal to be removed from the barrel extension. Evidently, when S&W moved the gas ring back to the cylinder, they continued to make the huge cut into the barrel extension.
 
This subject always reminds me of the Chevy 305 with soft camshaft. It happens to all of them yet nobody knows anyone it happened to. I think most here are fine shooting full house 125gr for a little range time and CC. It's not likely you're shooting 100s of rounds a month through it. Heck you'd go broke. The odds are in your favor.
 
This subject always reminds me of the Chevy 305 with soft camshaft. It happens to all of them yet nobody knows anyone it happened to. I think most here are fine shooting full house 125gr for a little range time and CC. It's not likely you're shooting 100s of rounds a month through it. Heck you'd go broke. The odds are in your favor.

My 1977 Corvette and my tenants' 1980 Corvette had soft camshafts. Right bank rear cylinder. I replaced the camshafts in both.
 
This subject always reminds me of the Chevy 305 with soft camshaft. It happens to all of them yet nobody knows anyone it happened to.
It happened to me. I had to pay over $600.00 back in 1985 to replace my 305's soft cam. Car ran like ****, got rid of it shortly afterwards.
 
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This topic constantly surfaces and is often brought up especially when members buy their first K magnum, it's always been the consensus opinion to avoid light magnums but mostly from anecdotal stories.
Yesterday in a thread discussing this same question member Hairtrigger posted a link to the best most thorough explanation of every angle of the issue, how it surfaced , when, why and what the solutions were, it is a long read but the story is not simple to explain.
If you have 20 minutes to read the whole story but it's almost impossible to tell the tale in a short thread except yes avoid light loads.
Enjoy.

The Smith & Wesson L-Frame Story – RevolverGuy.Com
That linked story was a great read. Lots of interesting info there.

One thing they mentioned that caught my eye was that in the mid / late 70s (which is when K frames cracking forcing cones became a bigger issue it seems...) that the winchester 125gr jhp load was using a bullet sealant that could sometimes create a ton of pullet pull. Something like that can REALLY spike cylinder pressure. They mentioned one cartridge example that required 385 lbs of force to pull bullet. An outlier statistically of course, presumably most werent nearlythat bad, but shows they (high bullet pull from sticky case sealant) were out there.

They mentioned a "former SW employee" in that time frame who saw a new K forcing cone crack in 11 rounds of that ammunition.

That made me think of something i dont -think- has been mentioned in this thread / in that article (apologies if so). Ok, so it was common for police agencies (and civilian shooters too), to shoot a mix of 38 special and 357 mags. Shooting 38s in a 357 cylinder does leave fouling at the end of the chamber, particularly if the 38 load is a soft (unjacketed) lead bullet. That fouling builds up and at some point it will make it difficult or impossible to put 357s in wo cleaning the cylinder, since the longer 357 case runs into the fouling at the end of chamber.

If the cylinder is fouled from shooting 38s, and someone puts in 357s, and they have some resistance but not enough to seem like a real problem (if you have to use a hammer or other object to push cartridges in, it would be a sign to any reasonable person that something was off). But lets say the fouling is significant but not enough to make it too hard to put cartridges in. Well, what im wondering is if there would be enough fouling there to make it harder to get bullet out of case when firing.

If case has a harder time releasing bullet due to insufficient clearance around case to open up, it can really spike chamber pressure. I wonder if that was one of the factors that contributed to K frames cracking forcing cones? (There were obviously a multitude of factors...which is why sometimes it happened early, sometimes never happened... just determined by whether the "swiss cheese holes" happened to lineup just right... or not).

I know for a fact (seen it in my own rifles), that a chamber w a neck thats just slightly too tight* can really spike pressure. Can make a big difference. *and too tight doesnt necessarily mean that extra force is required to seat cartridge, that theres interference / no clearance. Chamber can be almost exact same size as cartridge neck, maybe a few .0001s of clearance, but not a thousandth or two thousandths of clearance that most rifles seem to like as a minimum (and we're talking target rifles, handloaded ammunition, being fired on a range... not in field / hunting scenarios, let alone combat conditions.. with who knows what ammo.. those need more clearance).

Need a bit of room for case neck to expand, smoothly release bullet or you'll see pressure spikes.

Anyways, didnt mean to write such a book but just seemed interesting to me :) Wonder if fouled chambers from 38s helped contribute to this.
 
Iridiumred, I hinted at cleaning being a potential issue in post number 3. But I'm not so sure the chamber fouling you mention is so much causative in the cracking problem as the folks who let the forcing cones in their revolvers get crudded up and didn't bother to clean them.

The original Lewis lead remover came with a mandrel specifically for cleaning the forcing cone. This was in the era when soft lead bullets probably were used by a majority of shooters. Awkward as it was to use, I usually could get it to work with the somewhat worn brass screens I used to clean the barrel.

I really think these concerns are a bit secondary to the obvious inherent weakness of the design. It's always wise to keep a revolver clean but my thought is that design, machining tolerances, and metallurgy are the main culprits in the 19 barrel cracking problem.

The 19 was and is a great gun, if maintained and used as intended, but over the years we've seen that 100% duty with full charge .357s was probably not anticipated. Times changed.
 
OK, My 2¢ worth of bloviation on this older thread. Back in the day we were issued .357 125 grain JHPs, Winchester or Remington depending who had the contract. I did see a 19 or two with forcing cones cracked at 6 O'clock. I also saw a Python with more of a bulged forcing cone. I have little doubt that the .357 125s were hard on guns, but beyond that seems like it might just be luck of the draw as to which 19s or 66s suffered cracked forcing cones. Though my early model 66 never cracked, over a few years expending copious quantities of factory and reloaded .357 ammunition, end play, timing, spitting jacket material, etc. got pretty bad. I sent it back to S&W and had it completely overhauled in '80. The frame and 2 or 3 other parts are now the only original parts on the gun. Shortly after it was returned from S&W, the L-Frames were introduced and I started carrying one of those. Still have the old 66; it has led an easy life since. I always appreciated the ruggedness of my 27s and a 28, but the L-Frames have become my favorite .357s.

Never had any durability issues with my L- Frames, but still glad to see the new 686MG has a larger diameter and thicker forcing cone than my other 686s; can't hurt...
 
If 357's are to be fired from a vintage K frame they should be the 158 grain version. Using a steady diet of 125 or 110 grain magnums will severely shorten the gun's longevity! At least, end shake will become greater than the specifications call for and will need to be fixed. If not properly fixed an out of spec revolver with end shake will start misfiring because the primers will not be struck hard enough for reliable ignition. The lighter weight bullets will also flame cut the top strap and could possibly crack the forcing cone of the revolver. I have seen quite a few examples of that!

K Frame 357's from S&W were never meant to shoot a steady diet of magnums! They were originally designed for law enforcement to practice with 38 specials and use 357's in the field. For that purpose, the M19, M66 M65, M13 etc. serves well and is a fairly light weight magnum revolver that is easier to cary than an L or N frame in the same caliber. As long as the lighter weight bullets are avoided and magnums are seldom shot your revolver should last a long time. Abuse it and the metal will start showing signs of wear and tear prematurely.

If you want to shoot thousands of magnum loads without fear of damage, get yourself an L Frame. Those who buy a magnum rated J Frame revolver and shoot a few magnums out of one usually never do so again. The violent recoil, slow follow up shots, and muzzle flash usually wise people up real fast.
 
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