357 Magnum 125 gr or 158 gr

[Joe American]

I am getting ready to load some ammo for my M686. I have noticed that 125 gr loads group larger and have a differnt point of impact than 158 grain loads. I would like to use 158s for SD and most other target/varmit shooting. Is over penetrationof the 158 load REALLY a problem for SD use?

 

[NE450No2]

Here is one solution, that I use.

In my 44 Mag I sight the gun in with my 240gr full power reloads.

In BIG bear country, I load 300gr loads...

When in the city I load lighter Hollow Points...

I figure that IF I have to shoot a bear, or get into a self defense situation I will be so close that a small difference in point of impact will not make any difference for the first 6 shots.

I know where both hit, for instance the lighter HP's usually hit a little lower in most 44 Mags...

My "second six" will be the heavier bullet loads, where over penetration does not worry me as much as I think after the first 6 everybody will probably be hiding behind something....

 

[cp1969]

I am getting ready to load some ammo for my M686. I have noticed that 125 gr loads group larger and have a differnt point of impact than 158 grain loads. I would like to use 158s for SD and most other target/varmit shooting. Is over penetrationof the 158 load REALLY a problem for SD use?

Not if you ask me.

A lot of shots fired in self defense end up being the ultimate in 'overpenetration'--outright misses. No one seems worried about those; it's the 158 gr. load that goes through somebody after a hit which keeps people up at night.

 

[44caliberkid]

Man or beast, keep em down, go heavy.

 

[john traveler]

Back in the late 1960s/early 1970s a fatal shooting incident with the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department ended use of .357 magnum ammunition.

A deputy was called on to excute a horse maimed and down in a vehicle accident. The round pentrated and killed the horse, richocheted off the ground, and killed a CHP officer conducting crowd control. This sad incident was used to point out the extreme penetration and power of magnum ammunition and ended it's use by both LACSD and CHP officers.

 

[Fishslayer]

I've been experimenting with both. 125gr Horny XTP with Bullseye & the 158 XTP and Nosler SJHP on top of a healthy charge of 2400. Also plated 158 SWC w/2400. Full house target loads.

Not concerned with overpenetration. I'm going for POA and reasonable grouping @ 10yds. On zombie duty the wheelgun is loaded with factory +P .38 anyway...

 

[AZretired]

Back in the late 1960s/early 1970s a fatal shooting incident with the Los Angeles County Sheriffs Department ended use of .357 magnum ammunition.

A deputy was called on to excute a horse maimed and down in a vehicle accident. The round pentrated and killed the horse, richocheted off the ground, and killed a CHP officer conducting crowd control. This sad incident was used to point out the extreme penetration and power of magnum ammunition and ended it's use by both LACSD and CHP officers.

This incident was just as much the fault of the deputy as the ammo. He should have paid more attention to where the CHP officer was standing. I had to put down a horse or two in my day. We used Fed. 125 JHP never had accuracy or overpenetration problems.
I say go with what is most accurate in your weapon.

 

[Titegroups]

A big factor that's being left out is a JHP's expansion compared to standard ball ammo of days gone bye. The bullet will be slowing down sooner due to the greater surface area. Once it has expanded it will also reduce it's ability to penetrate a secondary object if it over penetrates the primary target. Almost an apples to oranges comparison. 158g what?

 

[Snapping Twig]

As I recall, the 125g JHP is about the ultimate SD load. Quite the CNS shock associated with this round. Move one of those @ 1400fps + and you've got a real stopper.

The 158 JSP is the round this cartridge was designed for. When introduced, this round was used to hunt dangerous game. Safe to say it penetrates a bit more.

Issues to be aware of...

Gas cutting of the top strap. This is primarily with the hot 125g rounds and is said to be the result of a short bullet and slow burning powder. Theoretically, the short bullet exits the chamber before the powder is completely consumed and the unburned particles sandblast the top strap and to a lesser degre, the forcing cone.

If you experience this, and you will with any revolver with any load, it tends to be self limiting and stops progressing as some point. Shoot a light load with a heavy bullet and you can find slight gas cutting, hot rounds a deeper cut and hot rounds with a light bullet, more cutting.

Not a problem, save for asthetics. In an alloy revolver with that small shield, you want to keep an eye on the shield and replace as needed.

I personally prefer cast bullets in the 160 to 170 grain area. My guns do double duty as hunting sidearms. I figure that if it is good for dangerous 4 legged game, it will handle dangerous 2 legged predators.

All this aside, I really prefer a .44 and use my 586 for practice as it uses less powder and lead, so it's an economy tool for me that I could use in the field.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

 

[Joe American]

Thank you for all the feed back. I like the notion of heavy is better. I will load JHP and may some SWC in 158 gr with most likley H110. This should do the trick until I find the means to aquire a 44

"There is no replacement for displacement"

 

[michael thornton]

give me the 158 jhp, i just like heavy bullets

 

[Mule88]

Im a 158 gn fan, they work on everything and easier on the k-frames than the 125 gn.

 

[CCV]

Try the 158 with Lil' Gun instead of that H110 I think you will be impressed.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO if you use a 158gr bullet that will reliably expand you will minimize the possibility of over-penetration. A Hornady XTP is a very hard bullet that is known to need a lot of velocity to expand. That bullet might not be a good choice for SD but a better choice for hunting. Speer Gold Dot bullets might be a better choice.

 

[MikeD49]

In Massad Ayoobs excellent Book Combat Handgunnery pg 100, Ayoob states " When Remington introduced the 125 grain hollowpoint at 1450fps the round hit it's stride. With a wound channel of 9 to 11 inches deep and massively wide, it set the all-time standard for one shot stops in actual field shootings." I carried that load on patrol in the mid 70's based on it's reputaion I was 100% confident that it would end hostilities immediately. Good Luck go with the 125 JHP.

 

[crofoot629]

The 357 built its vaunted reputation on the Remington 125 sjhp @ 1450 fps
load.

That's the truth, some thoughts to the contrary having all
ready been expressed here. It doesn't have to be Remington's load, but I'd opt for any good 125 grn 1450 fps jhp load.

There are several manufactures of of 1200-1250 125's
fps loads. Why? The full effort 1450 fps loads are stout to shoot,
and ammo manufactures do like to sell ammo

Frankly I shoot bigger slower moving cartridges like the 45 acp
or 44 specials better. Now if you, or anyone else, is skilled enough to shoot full power 357's well, I think you would be very well armed.

Best Regards,
Emory