.357 Magnum "Pre-Model 19" serial number Question

[Harkrader]

I recently purchased a S&W revolver that seems to be a "Pre-Model 19." It has the screw at the front of the trigger guard. It is not marked as "Combat Magnum."
The serial number on the butt is K260692, repeated on the rear of the cylinder.
There is an apparently unrelated number and the letter "Y" on the frame under the yoke.
Looking up "Combat Magnum" in the SCofS&W 3rd Edition, on page 136 production dates are shown as "1955 - 1999," with the moniker "Model 19" given them from 1957 on. Introductory serial number is shown as "K260001."
THEN, I go to the serial number section of the book, page 398, and find this one falls into the year 1955.
And THEN I go to page 186 where I find "Model 19 serial number K33333 attributed to J. Egdar Hoover." Wouldn't that be WAY before the range shown for the Model 19? Page 398 seems to indicate it was from 1948.
AND, on page 185, production dates for the Model 19 (presumably named such) are 1955 - 1999.
HELP!
pix attached (note the FABULOUS finish!)

 

[S&WIowegan]

You definitely have a very nice pre-Model 19 and the serial number fits right into the correct range of known pre-19s. The J. Edgar Hoover info is somehow incorrect......not to worry...any such book has errors that get corrected in subsequent editions...if there are any. I believe the Hoover serial number on page 186 is simply a typo and one more numeral would make it correct. Note it says Model 19 to Hoover...not pre-19.

Enjoy your beautiful pre-19.

 

[wetdog]

Nice gun. Interesting front sight with the green.

 

[Harkrader]

Thanks, S&WIowegan.
That's kinda where I thought this was going, but I'm originally from that foreign land just across the Great River from you, so I'm easily confused. (My Iowa-born wife does try to help.)

 

[Harkrader]

Wetdog:
I don't find any reference in the SCofS&W about green inserts. The ramp does not seem to have been taken off, replaced or fiddled with. If it's aftermarket it's well done, I think.

 

[lowhog]

Beautiful pre 19. Have you shot it?

 

[shawn mccarver]

The J. Edgar Hoover weapon is the so-called "Sweet Gun," so named because it was presented to Mr. Hoover by Mr. William Sweet. It is embellished with full engraving, gold inlay, and has the FBI Seal engraved, among other things, on the weapon. It was engraved by Alvin White. The correct serial number of this weapon is K333333. It was sold at auction a couple of years ago. Pictures are here:

*HISTORIC ALVIN WHITE ENGRAVED & GOLD INLAID J. EDGAR HOOVER PRESENTATION SMITH & WESSON MODEL 19 COMBAT MAGNUM DA REVOLVER.

 

[Harkrader]

lowhog:
I just got it this weekend and haven't been to the club, yet. Later this week, though, with some of my handloads. They are all in .357 Magnum shells, but range from .38 Special +P to full-house .357 Magnum loads that push a 158-gr Barnes Bullet to about 1350fps from a 6" Python. I won't be shooting many of those more powerful loads, not because I'm concerned about damaging the gun - I can't imagine shooting that many of them - but because *I* may not hold up to them!
BTW, the finish on this gun equals any of the Pythons I had or have and lockup and timing are among the best I've ever seen from S&W.
Lockup is tight, no slop anywhere. Seems to have been little used.

 

[Retired W4]

That is one sweet Combat Magnum Harkrader. Congratulations on your acquisition.

 

[Harkrader]

Thanks, Shawn McCarver! Wow! That's fabulous.
I wonder what it sold for, and
I wonder if it's on display somewhere.
And thanks for clearing up the serial number. I'm making a note in the book.

 

[lowhog]

lowhog:
I just got it this weekend and haven't been to the club, yet. Later this week, though, with some of my handloads. They are all in .357 Magnum shells, but range from .38 Special +P to full-house .357 Magnum loads that push a 158-gr Barnes Bullet to about 1350fps from a 6" Python. I won't be shooting many of those more powerful loads, not because I'm concerned about damaging the gun - I can't imagine shooting that many of them - but because *I* may not hold up to them!
BTW, the finish on this gun equals any of the Pythons I had or have and lockup and timing are among the best I've ever seen from S&W.
Lockup is tight, no slop anywhere. Seems to have been little used.

I agree on the finish compared to a python or pre 29. I have been fortunate enough to own two pythons in the past. And boy o boy are they shooters. Now I'm fixen to take this registered magnum out today, and shoot some 38 special wadcutter thru it.

 

[Doc44]

Very nice Combat Magnum that dates to 1956. The green ramp was most likely installed on a plain Baughman ramp or is a replacement for a red ramp (unlikely).

Bill

 

[JayCeeNC]

Very nice early Combat Magnum.
It has target grips without the "football" cutout on the left side, they're not see quite as often as the football cutout style.
Be careful at the range and don't damage that beauty. Those guns can be valuable. S&W Pre model 19 Combat magnum : Revolvers at GunBroker.com

 

[Muley Gil]

Very nice Combat Magnum that dates to 1956. The green ramp was most likely installed on a plain Baughman ramp or is a replacement for a red ramp (unlikely).

Bill

Well, it could be a replacement. Back when I was doing some gunsmithing for my fellow police officers, I was brought at least three or four S&Ws that had lost the red insert or had had it damaged. I did several white inserts and I know two green inserts.

At one time I had a sheet of red plastic (approx 4" x 6") that supposedly came from S&W and I used that up. Afterwards, I used toothbrush handles.

 

[Harkrader]

Doc44:
Do you know if they shipped with a red insert? I didn't see any listed for the Pre-19s in the SCofS&W. It makes me wonder if someone had an expert cut the ramp and insert the plastic, like you said. It is very well done; expert, I'd say.

 

[Harkrader]

FAAAR OUT, JayCeeNC!
$3500 and it is over 300 serial numbers later. It does have that box, the cleaning stuff, etc. Still, WOW!
I wonder what made it that special.

 

[JayCeeNC]

Harkrader, there was a long discussion over that auction gun a few days ago, would make for some interesting reading in light of your Combat Magnum acquisition.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...ase-tell-me-why-model-19-44-sold-so-much.html

 

[Harkrader]

Hey, JayCeeNC,
What is "the football cutout style?"
I haven't heard that term before.

 

[Harkrader]

Thanks for the Link, JayCeeNC.
Too much to think about!
I'll just have to be happy to have it and have fun with it.
IDPA revolver . . ..

 

[Engine49guy]

Beautiful early Combat Magnum,
The green insert is definately not original, if the rear site is white outline may have had a red insert at one time, if plain black probably not. The grips appear to be 4 years older than the gun and are called "Non relieved K Targets", the "Football relieved K targets" have a scalloped area that allow the empty casings to be ejected without jamming up against the left grip panel and were introduced just prior to the introduction of the K Magnum.
IMO if you only want a shooter a 1956 K Magnum does not have the strength of the L or N frame magnums or parts availability if something breaks (God forbid) like a forcing cone it would seriously depreciate in value.

I would keep that K Magnum as a collectable or sell it and buy a 19-4 with the gas ring on the cylinder for a range weapon and an L frame Model 686 or N frame Model 27 or 28 with the money left over which will endure a lifetime of full house 357 loads.

thanks for sharing it.