357 magum self defense rounds for model 27-2 . 5 inch barrel

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agent00

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I will be soon the lucky new owner of nice smith and wesson model 27-2 with a . 5 inch barrel.

It will serve as my main target/fun shooting and will replace my model 19 in that function.

For the model 19 I use some 38 SPL 158GR LSWC from magtech as my target/fun shooting and self defense.

In order to not damage the model 19 too much I rarely used 357 mag stuff with it.

The model 27 is going to be more sturdy so I plan to use more 357 mag loads with it.

For self defense I still going to use the 38 special lead semi wadcutter rounds. They should be more than powerful enough for a short range self defense load.

Just in theory would it be ok to use some classic 125 grain semi jacketed hollow point rounds with .5 inch barrel or would these light rounds be to be fast in a longer barrel gun.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the 357 mag 125 grain rounds got their fame when used in a .4 inch or shorter barrel six gun?

If so would be a 158 grain jhp round a better pick for a longer barreled revolver? Is there certain 158 grain load you would particularly recommend?

Here in Austria lighter 357 mags loads are not common anyway. It seems that in 357 mag the 158 grain loads are way more common.

It would be easier for me to some 158 grain 357 mag jhp rounds.
 
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The precursor to the 357 Magnum was the 38/44. The revolver had a 5" barrel, and 158 grain semi-wadcutter bullets were typical (as far as I can tell). There is nothing wrong with a 125 grain bullet in a 5" 357 Magnum revolver either. If muzzle energy is your preferred metric, the lighter bullet produces more muzzle energy. Personally I would choose the 158 grain for a 5" barrel, especially if that is more available.

Here's a fun read:
Attention Required! | Cloudflare
 
My opinion is that the .357 is at its best with 158 grain ammo, but as you say, the 125 grain round has a good reputation in self defense applications and is not going to unduly harm your Model 27. In reality, SD is usually such a small consideration that the ammunition you normally use for target shooting is much more important.

Either round is suitable for your 5-inch barrel. In the .357 there is usually not much difference between a typical 4- or 5-inch barrel, usually around 50 FPS, or thereabouts. Often individual guns of the same barrel length show as much or more variation. If you intend to use the ammo mainly for casual target shooting, I would stay with 158s.

Since you intend to begin handloading soon, consider handloading your own cartridges with coated bullets. You can adjust your powder charge to give some "magnum feel," but stay clear of maximum pressures typical in European brands of factory ammunition. The 5-inch 27 is a great "general use" .357. Trust you will enjoy your new revolver. :)
 
If I recall correctly the old Treasury Load (.357 magnum +P+ with 125 grain HP) was supposed to be the epitome of butt-kickers in it's day. The guys who rode shotgun on the Piggly-Wiggly trucks that were actually carrying A-bombs carried them, again back in the day when such things were semi-routinely moved around on the countries highways.
 
The "Treasury Load" was a .38 Special 110 grain +P+...it was loaded by Winchester and Federal. Winchester loads an equivalent in their .357 110 grain offering...same specs but in the magnum case.

The FBI load was 158 grain .38 Special LSWCHP +P.

Both agencies swore by their load but each had their own specific needs for an issue round to meet. For self-defense an individual needs to identify his own needs and determine what round best meets those needs.
 
I have found that a 140gr JHP from Hornady or any company loadings
were very accurate in my 357 revolvers and easier on the light frames, if used.

Todays 110 JHP, .357 Magnum , has been wattered down and might be another offer,
if you go with a lighter weight bullet.

Many like the 135gr JHP from Speer.

Enjoy the new revolver.
 
For a 5 inch barrel I'd look at 125 gr .357 Magnum. You could also do a 158gr LSWC in .357 magnum. I wouldn't want to be shot with either. Depending on the round, they'll flash something fierce. My 28 4" soaked up a lot of recoil form me (I could feel a difference compared to my 686 using the old Remington 125 JHPs).

Your .38 SPC +Ps will also shoot fine. It'll reduce the flash and recoil and probably price.
 
As noted above, the 5" M27 is a fine "do all" platform. In my M66, I mostly shoot .38 SWC because placement and adequate penetration are good enough for use against people. I would give consideration to the politics of home defense (I am presuming that carrying outside of home/work is not a thing there) and ammo choice. Also consider the possibility of being injured and having to shoot one handed, maybe from the "weak" hand. With my shoulder injury, my pocket carried G42 is the only choice; the Mika pocket holster is ambidextrous.

If you do obtain any of the 125 grain, you will find that they tend to be hot, and not all that practical unless you train a lot. Neat to touch off, but that's a different thing. When I carry full power ammo in my M66, it is usually 145 grain Silvertips. They are not made often, so I snag a bunch when I can.
 
STORMINORMAN said:
Perhaps a list of what 357 Magnum ammo is readily available in Austria would help in any recommendations...?;)

Cheers!
Click to expand...


Here in Austria I can get 158 grain jhp rounds, from federal, winchester, magtech easily. I have also seen 158 grain jhp rounds from gecco, Norma and fioochi.

In 125 grain I have just seen the 125 grain sjhp rounds from Remington and Fioochi.

I could also get some 158 grain semi lead wadcutter hp rounds. I have also seen a 158 grain soft point round from remington in the HTTP line. Not sure if soft points would deform at normal handgun velocities or not.

It would also be able to get some 110 grain 357 mag High Terminal Performance rounds from remington.

@Neveda Ed would this be one of the 110 grain loads you have suggested?

@all Thanks a lot for the many pieces of great information. The link about the 38/44 was also interesting to read.
 
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Of the available manufacturers and bullets mentioned I would suggest the Remington HTP 158gr SJSP would suffice in just about any situation where true 357 Magnum performance might he required.

Multiple review indicate reliable penetration and expansion: you probably won't want to shoot more than a couple cylinders-full on the average range visit, though...?

Cheers!

P.S. A wonderful aspect of reloading is the ability to load from mild to WILD! with various projectiles :eek: , and 38 Special/357 Magnum is a great place to start.
 
Most 357mag defensive ammo fired from a 4" or longer barrel in 357mag tend to reduce the bullet diameter over shorter barrel's .

The barnes XPB bullet is available loaded in140gr down there 125gr bullets loaded by federal , buffalo bore- low flash load and barnes ammo and these loads might be your best choice . I keep some of the Barnes brand 140gr xpb for our defensive choices . Recoil is just under 1200fps from my DE 15-2 4" revolver , The faster loads can over penetrate .


I bought and have carried a 40sw since late '90's do to better defensive bullet performance over the 357mag LE loads of the day and still carry a 40sw today even thought my old DW revolver now wears only the 4" barrel I also load 357 and 38 loads for plinking with . I hope I never need to carry a revolver over a pistol do changes in the laws !
 
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hardluk1 said:
Most 357mag defensive ammo fired from a 4" or longer barrel in 357mag tend to reduce the bullet diameter over shorter barrel's .

The barnes XPB bullet is available loaded in140gr down there 125gr bullets loaded by federal , buffalo bore- low flash load and barnes ammo and these loads might be your best choice . I keep some of the Barnes brand 140gr xpb for our defensive choices . Recoil is just under 1200fps from my DE 15-2 4" revolver , The faster loads can over penetrate .


I bought and have carried a 40sw since late '90's do to better defensive bullet performance over the 357mag LE loads of the day and still carry a 40sw today even thought my old DW revolver now wears only the 4" barrel I also load 357 and 38 loads for plinking with . I hope I never need to carry a revolver over a pistol do changes in the laws !
Click to expand...

What does mean, "reduce the bullet diameter"????
 
agent00,

The Remington 158 grain lead semi-wad cutter load from back in the day (1930s into the 1980s) was loaded with a soft swaged lead bullet and leaded horribly. The 125 grain jacketed hollow point was known as the best stopper for many, many years.

My recommendation is to load your M27 5" with the ammo that you shoot the best. Anything fired within a house is going to be VERY loud.
 
The Remington 125 SJHP-at least in pre bankruptcy days-is a very good performer. Especially in 38 Spl +P loads. I did a test yesterday (handloaded version) and to my great surprise, out of a 2 inch barrel I got 0.545 in expansion and 12.58 in penetration. The Remington Golden Saber round is loaded to a more moderate velocity and should be a bit easier on the gun.
 
Hi from Germany

my experience: soft lead bullets in .357 Magnum left the barrel of all my .357 S&Ws heavily leaded. So did each .38 Special ammo I tried. I suggest you use Fiocchi 38 Spl. Lead Round Nose (Teflon coated) 158 gr for range time, no leading. For personal defense you can stick with 158 gr SWC Lead Hollow Points unless you expect yourself being caught in a gunfight with multiple recharges. Or you stick to aforementioned Fiocchis, they bring about 400 J from a 5" barrel. If you like to use .357 Magnum, I once had a WW White Box 158 gr swaged Lead SWC that deformed very well at impact. So should do the old Magtech in same configuration. Don't know if both are stille made.

regards from Germany
Ulrich
 
Anything factory ammo with 357 stamped on the case is more than enough for self defense. Muley Gil said it best. Obviously shot placement is most imp't. Know your house --- you don;t want to put one through a wall and hit a family member or through a window at the neighbors house. Have a plan. Great discussion.
 
agent00 said:
In order to not damage the model 19 too much I rarely used 357 mag stuff with it.

Just in theory would it be ok to use some classic 125 grain semi jacketed hollow point rounds with .5 inch barrel or would these light rounds be to be fast in a longer barrel gun. Correct me if I am wrong but I believe the 357 mag 125 grain rounds got their fame when used in a .4 inch or shorter barrel six gun? If so would be a 158 grain jhp round a better pick for a longer barreled revolver? Is there certain 158 grain load you would particularly recommend?

Here in Austria lighter 357 mags loads are not common anyway. It seems that in 357 mag the 158 grain loads are way more common.

It would be easier for me to some 158 grain 357 mag jhp rounds.
Click to expand...

First, welcome - I have fond memories of many fine meals in Vienna over the years. You live in a very beautiful, special place populated by some of the nicest people anywhere.

I suspect you would be very happy with the 158 grain loads, particularly those with jacketed bullets. They are very accurate and I now routinely carry these in my hiking and horseback 357 as they could be humanely used in an emergency to put down a seriously injured horse. I was in the New Mexico State Police for many years; we carried the Federal 125 grain JHP from at least 1979 until changing to Winchester Silvertips in 145 grain JHP about 1989 as I recall. We often had to euthanize large animals badly injured in traffic accidents. New officers quickly learned the 125 grain JHP was fine for animals up to sheep size, but largely were unreliable on horses and cows. Most used 12 gauge slugs on large animals; I kept 158 grain JSPs in my patrol car for such sad occasions, as the public seemed less distressed by the use of a pistol than on those few occasions I had to use a shotgun.

Enjoy your superb acquisition!
 
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Agent00,
Can you verify the barrel length? I read your post as that you acquired and S&W model 27-2 with a 5 inch barrel. I later noticed that there was a . in front of the 5. Usually that indicates a half inch. The 27s were offered in a 3.5 inch version and 5 inch version and later a 6.5 inch (plus others) per the big book of S&W.
 
He's from Austria, guys...it's clearly a 5 inch gun. Someone asking about a 1/2 inch barreled .357 is outside the common reality we (well, most of us) live in and enjoy.

I load up 125gr in my .357s, mostly Hornady XTPs. There have been lots of studies on the performance of light vs. heavy bullets on the human body. The aggregate consensus has long been heavy is best until you get into the "magnum" territory (including 10mm) where lighter becomes better due to overpenetration, and if heavy bullets are designed not to overpenetrate, they tend to be unreliable in that respect.
 
The Remington 110gr 357 load is now rated at 1295fps.
In the 70's, a box of 3M 110 jhp in my M19-5, did 1463fps.

However, the new Remington 125gr JHP of today is still listed at 1450fps.

For a "Light" SD load in a 4" .357, the 125gr or heavier bullet that is a
+P 38 special loading, has proven to work on most bad guys, with two well placed bullets, to stop the problem from continuing.

It depends on the size of the "Bloke" that you bump into.
 
hkcavalier said:
He's from Austria, guys...it's clearly a 5 inch gun. Someone asking about a 1/2 inch barreled .357 is outside the common reality we (well, most of us) live in and enjoy.

I load up 125gr in my .357s, mostly Hornady XTPs. There have been lots of studies on the performance of light vs. heavy bullets on the human body. The aggregate consensus has long been heavy is best until you get into the "magnum" territory (including 10mm) where lighter becomes better due to overpenetration, and if heavy bullets are designed not to overpenetrate, they tend to be unreliable in that respect.
Click to expand...
I lived in Germany for 5 years. I saw alot of 3 inch guns, so it's not impossible that he has a 3 1/2 revolver. Based on my reading of the standard catalogue there was also a 6 1/2 gun offered. I'm trying give the best advice possible.
 
cd228 said:
I lived in Germany for 5 years. I saw alot of 3 inch guns, so it's not impossible that he has a 3 1/2 revolver. Based on my reading of the standard catalogue there was also a 6 1/2 gun offered. I'm trying give the best advice possible.
Click to expand...

Some people got hung up on if it was a .5 inch barrel gun, which is a bit absurd. Sure, it could be a 3.5" or 6.5" model, but his follow up posts show it was simply an unnecessary period, and in any case a great SD load for a 5" 27-2 will be A-OK in those other standard barrel lengths.
 
IAM Rand said:
Any ammo that you can shoot well that won't over penetrate. I don't think you will have a complaint from a bad guy for the type of ammo you use.

Just sayin
Click to expand...

Back when I attended FLETC…our lead firearms instructor discussed the subject of over-penetration from a law enforcement perspective. He felt the penetration argument was misguided…as most rounds fired by police miss their intended target. He said over-penetration wasn't the issue if you miss their intended target target…marksmanship under stress was the more important issue.

The over-penetration argument was for writers selling their arguments by the word.
 
I am pretty sure that typing ".5 inch" was more about European conventions for typing numeral measurements than anything else. The title as I read it made it clear that the topic was a 5" barrel. Good enough.

As for ammo, you probably have lots of choices for your different uses, but I am not up to speed on the Austrian market.

The high power rockets might be better for the range or hog hunting. They are likely to be gratifying to shoot and see, much like fireworks. Whether they are a practical choice for home defense and the like is largely about your training and skills. I have no basis to assess those for you, so you need to be honest with yourself. Most folks have not trained to a level appropriate to the really high level needed. I included myself in that.
 
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