.357 No good in snubbies? apparently all handgun rounds the same?
- Thread starter leviathon
- Start date
Regarding the "357 is too much" comments:
With practice one will anticipate the muzzle flash (and use it to find their front sight for follow up shots if needed) regardless of caliber.
With practice the felt recoil in any caliber will be anticipated and the ability to make follow up shots will be as right as rain.
With any center fire handgun the noise level is going to be beyond the Recommended Adult Daily Allowance for dB's. I seriously doubt that one will be able to tell the difference in actual hearing damage (or care about the difference in a real-life situation) between a full house .357 vs a Buffalo Bore Super-Dooper .38+P.
That being said, J-Frame .357's are not my cup of tea. Shot a chamber full once and my hand hurt for 2 days! My hat's off to those of you who carry them. For a carry .357 this wuss will stick to an M65 thank you!
To the OP, even if you have no desire to become a reloader, I recommend a trip to the library to see if they have a copy of "The ABC's of Reloading". Good ballistic reading for any hand gunner.
With practice one will anticipate the muzzle flash (and use it to find their front sight for follow up shots if needed) regardless of caliber.
With practice the felt recoil in any caliber will be anticipated and the ability to make follow up shots will be as right as rain.
With any center fire handgun the noise level is going to be beyond the Recommended Adult Daily Allowance for dB's. I seriously doubt that one will be able to tell the difference in actual hearing damage (or care about the difference in a real-life situation) between a full house .357 vs a Buffalo Bore Super-Dooper .38+P.
That being said, J-Frame .357's are not my cup of tea. Shot a chamber full once and my hand hurt for 2 days! My hat's off to those of you who carry them. For a carry .357 this wuss will stick to an M65 thank you!
To the OP, even if you have no desire to become a reloader, I recommend a trip to the library to see if they have a copy of "The ABC's of Reloading". Good ballistic reading for any hand gunner.
Yiogo
US Veteran
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I carry a 637--2 (38 spl only) with a crimson trace laser because I can shoot it well enough and it is light enough. I just bought a Remington R1 which is around 3 pounds loaded and in a holster. No way I carry that. I don't need it. I can barely carry myself around these days. Never mind an extra 3 lbs. Yiogo
And what round is that? A 155mm Howitzer? Because no handgun round is 'going to stop a man in his tracks'.
This isn't TV....
Lobster Picnic
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I've shot .357 out of a steel snub and didn't want to do it again. I would not be able to practice enough to get good with the round without damaging my hand, which is needed for other things like earning a living. So I stick to .38sp for carry, I can practice without pain, and have shown good accuracy with the platform at reasonable distances.
I don't dislike .357, just like them a whole lot better out of a 40-oz gun with a 4'+ barrel.
I don't dislike .357, just like them a whole lot better out of a 40-oz gun with a 4'+ barrel.
M3Stuart
Member
9 millimeter - shmillimeter...
I just wanted to say that. I wasn't going anywhere with it, just had to get it out of my system.
I just wanted to say that. I wasn't going anywhere with it, just had to get it out of my system.
baccusboy
Member
The .357 out of a snub barrel is kind of like driving a Ferrari around with an engine from a Sonata and a straight-pipe muffler. It looks sexy, but it's noisy and not fast.
The "ultimate manstopper" numbers quoted often by people who love the .357 are from wheelguns with a barrel of 4" or more. Unfortunately, these numbers drop significantly in a snub barrel of 2", placing the ballistics of the .357 round within the range of a 9mm, yet with slightly less expansion capability.
The .357 out of a snub will work, yes, but it will not work any better on a target than a 9mm out of a Glock 26. And the .357 will generate excessive muzzle flash, greater noise, be more difficult to get on target for follow-up shots, and the .357 snub holds fewer rounds.
It's simple math, folks.
The 9mm has a longer profile and will expand more.
The width of the .357 and 9mm are basically identical.
The speed at which the 9mm+P or +P+ leaving a Glock 26 is similar to that of a .357 leaving a snub with full-house loads (with 20 fps).
Source for snubbie stats with full house .357 loads:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm
Source for stats on the Glock 26:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/125566-chronograph-info-9mm-40s-w-10mm-45acp-357-mag.html
And just to see what you're giving up using less than a 4" barrel in your .357 Mag, check that last link to see what the longer-barreled .357's will do. If you really want more power and greater capacity with less muzzle flash and recoil, you need to carry the .357 Sig. That'll gain you another 100fps over the .357 Snubbie in a compact pistol that's arguably easier to carry, and give you nearly double the capacity!
The "ultimate manstopper" numbers quoted often by people who love the .357 are from wheelguns with a barrel of 4" or more. Unfortunately, these numbers drop significantly in a snub barrel of 2", placing the ballistics of the .357 round within the range of a 9mm, yet with slightly less expansion capability.
The .357 out of a snub will work, yes, but it will not work any better on a target than a 9mm out of a Glock 26. And the .357 will generate excessive muzzle flash, greater noise, be more difficult to get on target for follow-up shots, and the .357 snub holds fewer rounds.
It's simple math, folks.
The 9mm has a longer profile and will expand more.
The width of the .357 and 9mm are basically identical.
The speed at which the 9mm+P or +P+ leaving a Glock 26 is similar to that of a .357 leaving a snub with full-house loads (with 20 fps).
Source for snubbie stats with full house .357 loads:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/38vs357snub.htm
Source for stats on the Glock 26:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/125566-chronograph-info-9mm-40s-w-10mm-45acp-357-mag.html
And just to see what you're giving up using less than a 4" barrel in your .357 Mag, check that last link to see what the longer-barreled .357's will do. If you really want more power and greater capacity with less muzzle flash and recoil, you need to carry the .357 Sig. That'll gain you another 100fps over the .357 Snubbie in a compact pistol that's arguably easier to carry, and give you nearly double the capacity!
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Moonman
Member
Reality would say that not many of the experts would stand in front of the business end (LONG OR SHORT BARREL)
of a 9MM, 38 Special, .357 Mag, 40S&W, 44 Special, 44 Mag, or 45ACP, SANS A VEST to check their opinions.
A little expansion or FPS from a Chrono that doesn't SHOOT BACK AT YOU, still leaves room for some
conjecture and interpretation, of WHAT"S BEST, for you.
ACCURACY COUNTS and is an EXCELLENT AID IN ENDING THE ENCOUNTER!
A 12 gage still Trumps Em' All!
of a 9MM, 38 Special, .357 Mag, 40S&W, 44 Special, 44 Mag, or 45ACP, SANS A VEST to check their opinions.
A little expansion or FPS from a Chrono that doesn't SHOOT BACK AT YOU, still leaves room for some
conjecture and interpretation, of WHAT"S BEST, for you.
ACCURACY COUNTS and is an EXCELLENT AID IN ENDING THE ENCOUNTER!
A 12 gage still Trumps Em' All!
novalty
Member
Follow up of my post #39 340PD in 357 magnum..
Well I bought a model 36 2 weeks ago..$200.
It shoots the same .38 spl. +P the 340PD did. ..And sold my 340PD..for $635.
The cost of the extra 8.5 oz to carry around and velocity loss of 250FPS... $435 in my pocket!
The cost of not losing the use of my right hand due to hitting it senselessly with what amounts to a 12oz hammer.. "Priceless"
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/273712-pawn-shop-reject-model-36-a.html
Well I bought a model 36 2 weeks ago..$200.
It shoots the same .38 spl. +P the 340PD did. ..And sold my 340PD..for $635.
The cost of the extra 8.5 oz to carry around and velocity loss of 250FPS... $435 in my pocket!
The cost of not losing the use of my right hand due to hitting it senselessly with what amounts to a 12oz hammer.. "Priceless"
http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-hand-ejectors-1896-1961/273712-pawn-shop-reject-model-36-a.html
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
Top .44Spl. load seems to be the CCI Blazer 200gr. Gold Dot, it dies expand!
As for the whole .357 being useless out of a snub...yeah, right!
A few years back I had a SP101 and just for giggles unloaded five 125gr. Federal "thermal nuclear" loads at an IPSC target 27 yards down range. I got 3 "A's" and 2 "C's"! And didn't really notice the recoil. Sure the little gun bucked, but those grips really worked!
Maybe it's the blast and flash bit the guy was worried about, but in a fight you may not even notice it, and I can live with a little hearing loss compared to a funeral.
And the 9mm works just fine thanks. Dale
As for the whole .357 being useless out of a snub...yeah, right!
A few years back I had a SP101 and just for giggles unloaded five 125gr. Federal "thermal nuclear" loads at an IPSC target 27 yards down range. I got 3 "A's" and 2 "C's"! And didn't really notice the recoil. Sure the little gun bucked, but those grips really worked!
Maybe it's the blast and flash bit the guy was worried about, but in a fight you may not even notice it, and I can live with a little hearing loss compared to a funeral.
And the 9mm works just fine thanks. Dale
baccusboy
Member
I don't see anyone calling it useless... just not as effective as a full-sized gun. A waste of energy, and excess recoil/flash, yes.
breakingbad
Member
As you know, there is now EXCELLENT PD ammo made by Hornady, Speer and Buffalo Bore to name 3, for short barrel guns in 38 special and 38 special +P.
There is PLENTY of data from those 3 manufacturers, from Gun mags and from the web showing the ballistic gelatin test results for their respective ammos. I mention gelatin only bec that keeps everything the same in a controlled test - only the ammo is different. Also, there is real world data and, of course, all things otherwise equal bigger caliber is better. BUT, the issue here is the difficulty shooting heavy magnum loads out of a snubbie compared to the lighter .38 special, and are you then undergunned bec of that.
So, if .357 magnum is just too much to handle safely, you can absolutely have knock down power with 38 special or special +P (my preference for guns so rated) ammo made specifically for your 2" snubbie. Devestating knock down is also possible if you hit 'em right.
The deciding factor is no longer the ammo for this question you asked. The deciding factor is - CAN YOU HIT YOUR TARGET with good shots?
Case closed. End of thread. Thank you
breakingbad
There is PLENTY of data from those 3 manufacturers, from Gun mags and from the web showing the ballistic gelatin test results for their respective ammos. I mention gelatin only bec that keeps everything the same in a controlled test - only the ammo is different. Also, there is real world data and, of course, all things otherwise equal bigger caliber is better. BUT, the issue here is the difficulty shooting heavy magnum loads out of a snubbie compared to the lighter .38 special, and are you then undergunned bec of that.
So, if .357 magnum is just too much to handle safely, you can absolutely have knock down power with 38 special or special +P (my preference for guns so rated) ammo made specifically for your 2" snubbie. Devestating knock down is also possible if you hit 'em right.
The deciding factor is no longer the ammo for this question you asked. The deciding factor is - CAN YOU HIT YOUR TARGET with good shots?
Case closed. End of thread. Thank you
breakingbad
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VTXS
US Veteran
Some interesting views posted on this thread. A pitcher for any women's softball team capable of throwing a pitch between 88 to 90 mph, the "foot pounds per square inch" of the softball exceeds that of a .45ACP. With that said, which one would you prefer to be hit with? In regard to muzzle blast, recoil, noise and fps, I can assure you that if your involved in a shooting situation, that will be the last thing on your mind. Train, practise then train and practise some more. If you think you have it down, then train and practise even harder.
1morethan8
US Veteran, Absent Comrade
Just a note about "flash".
If you have dark eyes you are less effected by flash that a person with light color eyes. This holds true in bright sun light
or car lights at night effecting your sight.
The next time you meet a welder, notice the color of their eyes... better than 90% will have brown or dark eyes.
If you have dark eyes you are less effected by flash that a person with light color eyes. This holds true in bright sun light
or car lights at night effecting your sight.
The next time you meet a welder, notice the color of their eyes... better than 90% will have brown or dark eyes.
breakingbad
Member
What does she look like and how much does she weigh on a "pounds per sq foot" comparo?
DrDyno
US Veteran
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