38/44 vs. 357 Magnum

[aterry33]

So other than the longer .357 cylinder, what were the differences in the Heavy Duty/Outdoorsman and the .357 magnums?

 

[Dave T]

As far as I know the cylinders are the same length. A number of the old HDs and Outdoorsmen had the chambers bored out to take 357 cartridges.

Dave

 

[tbury]

As far as I know the cylinders are the same length. A number of the old HDs and Outdoorsmen had the chambers bored out to take 357 cartridges.

Dave

I agree with Dave's info. It is my understanding that the case length was set to insure that the .357 loads would not fit into weaker 38 spl. guns such as the older M&Ps and weaker guns made by other gun makers in .38 spcl.

 

[aterry33]

I agree with Dave's info. It is my understanding that the case length was set to insure that the .357 loads would not fit into weaker 38 spl. guns such as the older M&Ps and weaker guns made by other gun makers in .38 spcl.

So basically, there is no real difference between the 38/44 and the 357 other than the chambers are not bored to take 357s?

 

[Justin251]

.38special and .357magnum have the same bore. It's the length that's different.

Same lead. Even the primers are the same. But you really want to use small magnum primers on .357mag

I shoot .38special wad cutters in my .357mag all the time or bulk .38special because it's usually a good bit cheaper.

Also, .357mag uses different powder if I'm not mistaken.

I personally would never by a .38special revolver unless it was a smoking hot deal. Not all are +p rated and all .357mag revolvers can shoot all .38special ammo from wad cutters to +P to +P+.

 

[inFALable]

Not all .357 mag loads use mag primers. Only loads that use slow burning powder need mag caps.

The old HD's were nearly as powerful if not equal to todays .357 loads as it has been watered down.

 

[wogentry]

.38-44 HV: The Original Magnum - revolver round - page 2 | Guns Magazine Here is an article by Chuck Taylor that talks about the difference. Sounds like the .38/44 loads were getting hot so they lengthend the case for safety reasons. Keep folks from loading up a hot round in an old M&P

 

[Justin251]

Not all .357 mag loads use mag primers. Only loads that use slow burning powder need mag caps.

The old HD's were nearly as powerful if not equal to todays .357 loads as it has been watered down.

Yeah, for our wad cutters we don't use the small magnum primers. We save those for good stuff.

 

[murphydog]

I recall reading somewhere that the prototype .357s were built on Outodoormans with special heat treatment. The hottest .38/44 ammunition was probably at current .357 Magnum levels, so who knows if this was necessary; the story about making the .357s longer to not allow loading into an M & P (or even scarier, an 1889-1903 Colt DA .38 service revolver) makes sense.

 

[Gary7]

I recall reading somewhere that the prototype .357s were built on Outodoormans with special heat treatment. The hottest .38/44 ammunition was probably at current .357 Magnum levels, so who knows if this was necessary; the story about making the .357s longer to not allow loading into an M & P (or even scarier, an 1889-1903 Colt DA .38 service revolver) makes sense.

True, but I think S&W aficionados sometimes forget that Colt did make a large frame (the New Service and Shooting Master) and a medium frame (the Official Police) that were approved by Colt to shoot the 38/44. In addition, the New Service and Shooting Master were offered in 357 Magnum once that round came out. Colt introduced a medium frame 357 36 years before S&W came out with the L-Frame. Colt's 41 frame (later called the I-Frame) was the basis of the "Colt 357" in 1954, which was later renamed the "Trooper 357." A year later the Python was introduced, which was a Trooper 357 with an underlugged bull barrel and a higher level of fit and finish. The Python was in effect Colt's "Registered Magnum" from a quality standpoint.

Here's a Colt Shooting Master 357, which is roughly the same size as the N-Frame S&W 357:

 

[TSQUARED]

The 357 Magnum had a checkered top strap.

 

[Doc44]

I am a little late on this, but from the 1937 catalog: .38/44 Outdoorsman with a 6 1/2-inch barrel (only cataloged option, but some "McGivern" models have a 5-inch barrel) weighed 41 3/4 ounces, .38/44 S&W Special with a 158 grain bullet had a muzzle velocity of 1125 fps, barrel had no rib (post-war model had one that is grooved) and top strap is plain, cost was $45.00

".357" Magnum with a 6 1/2-inch barrrel (length was optional between 3 1/2 inches and 8 3/4-inches) weighed 45 ounces, top strap was finely checked as was the barrel rib, charge holes in cylinder have recessed head space, hammer with concentric grooves to improve function, Magnum ammunition with a 158 grain bullet had a muzzle velocity of 1515 fps (probably in a barrel of 8 3/4 inches in length), cost was $60.00 and a wait of six weeks or more, but worth the wait.

Bill

 

[Muley Gil]

I would imagine that the .357 has a different heat treatment.

 

[laney566]

My 38/44 Super Police has more than 1/8 left in the cylinder when loaded...Does this mean if a .357 WILL fit into the cylinder, that it can handle the pressure of the Magnum load?
I am just curious, I have not yet purchased .357 to test this theory, but if a .357 is only 1/8 inch longer than current .38 loads....I think I have the room for it. Everything else about this gun seems modified...I wonder if it was modified to accommodate a .357 load.

 

[Nightowl]

Does anyone know how accurate the muzzle velocity figures are for the .38 and .357 listed loads of the 1930's?

 

[RKmesa]

Not the greatest photos, but here are some photos for comparison:

6.5" Registered "357 Magnum"

6.5" 38/44 "Outdoorsman"

 

[Dan M]

Need to compare the Shiny ones too

 

[Dave T]

Does anyone know how accurate the muzzle velocity figures are for the .38 and .357 listed loads of the 1930's?

Believe it or not they had chronographs back then. Crude by our standards (based on a ballistic pendulum) but they were able to measure the velocity of their ammo.

Dave

 

[DoubleAdobe]

Oh, those are lovely.

 

[David LaPell]

I have read up alot on the .38-44 since I used to own one. The old .357's that first came out could easily smoke the current loads (I blame J-frame .357's) at 158 grains moving at 1,500 fps. But as far as the guns there really isn't a great deal of difference between the two.