38 crimp question

[fatman73]

I have a 686 i would like to start to load for and having problems with the crimp. i am getting more of a thin band of crimp and not so much of a slight roll on the top of the case. Im using a lee 3 die set should i seat and crimp with 2 dies. any help would be great


38 cases, hp38, 158 gr lswc and mixed brass

 

[Harry Callahan]

You should seat and crimp in two stages if possible, and I have found that taper crimp dies make a lot smoother and cleaner crimp than roll crimp dies. Redding Taper Crimp Die 38 Special 357 Mag

 

[varmint243]

I reload 38 specials for my 686.
I do not crimp, I just bring the case walls back to straight so that they load into the chambers nicely.
I think you are going to have trouble getting a uniform crimp on mixed brass, the lengths will likely be different.
If anything I would get a taper crimp die, and use it to nudge the flare back, not really crimp with it.

 

[Dash-1]

Use the same batch brass , make,type.etc.

 

[arjay]

Take a resized piece of brass with no primer or powder and raise it in the press.Take the seating die,back the stem all the way out and then thread the die into the press until it just touches the brass.Lower the shell,set a bullet on it,raise it and screw the stem in until it touches the bullet.The next step is to lower the brass again screw the stem in a bit more and keep doing this until the bullet is exactly as deep as you want it.Back the stem out a couple turns and screw the die body in a half a turn at a time until you have the right crimp.Once you have that,set the lock ring and raise the cartridge to the top and screw the stem down until it touches the bullet.

Edit: The brass needs to be uniform in length for this to work.

 

[Jellybean]

A "thin band"? If the image I'm getting in my mind is correct, it sounds as if you have the crimp die turned in too far, can you post a picture of one by any chance? Or try backing the crimp die out a little at a time and see if it gets any better.

 

[fatman73]

I tried to snap a pic very hard to see ill try less crimp as recomended.thanks

 

[kentguy]

fatman73,

Lead is a very soft metal so it does not require much of a crimp at all. My loads get 1/4 turn on my LEE crimp die... no more.

varmint243 has a good piece of advice and for most all loads I whole heartly agree... "I just bring the case walls back to straight so that they load into the chambers nicely."

Good luck.

 

[carpriver]

I reload for my 686's and I use a Lee turret press with the 3 die set plus the factory crimp die. In reading your post it sounds like your trying to crimp at the same time as setting the bullet. I crimp the round in a single separate step. Your best bet is to good back to the setup instructions and follow the steps in the instructions to get the correct crimp. If you think you need to tighter crimp order a Lee Factory Crimping Die. With the crimping die you can not over crimp and crush the brass or bullet. I crimp everything I reload, for semi autos it so the bullet does but get set back during loading in the chamber or while in the mag an can be forced back into the cast during recoil. In revolvers so the bullet isn't forced out of the case during recoil and causing a lockups of the cylinder. When I first started reloading I though I would never get the hang of it. I don't remember how many times I reread the instructions, I know a couple time while rereading the light went on and I got things right. Even now when thing are off a bit I dig out the instruction and start rereading them, it normally work out good that way. Good Luck and be safe.

 

[arjay]

If you have a factory round handy,compare the crimps.

 

[fatman73]

At this point i just reload 45 acp and just starting to load the 38. The die set is 3 dies so it is a seat and crimp in 1 step i think i got it to where im happy with it. the 686 is a 6 inch so recoil is really low i just think i was heavy on the crimp thanks again

 

[fatman73]

I was going by the lee directions went with what you suggested and all good thanks

 

[hotrod150]

When I startsd loading 38 spl I seated & crimped in the same operation but got bulgy cartridges. I seat & crimp in two operations now & that works a lot better. Be sure you seat the bullet so the case mouth lines up with the crimp groove in the bullet- most lead bullet designs have a pretty narrow crimp groove. Soe designs work better if you crimp into a grease groove.
I like a firm roll crimp on my revolver cartridges. Never had any bullet jump yet due to recoil and don't want any.

 

[blujax01]

fatman73,

Lead is a very soft metal so it does not require much of a crimp at all. My loads get 1/4 turn on my LEE crimp die... no more.

varmint243 has a good piece of advice and for most all loads I whole heartly agree... "I just bring the case walls back to straight so that they load into the chambers nicely."

Good luck.

Just be careful. That may pass the gage test but may not be enough crimp.
Load 6, shoot 1 and remove the remaining 5. Check to make sure the bullets haven't loosened up or push easily into the cases.
I'd rather have a firm crimp than not enough.

 

[hotrod150]

Better yet, shoot 5 & check the remaining 1. Powderpuff aka target loads may not do it, but full-power loads can result in bullet-jump.
From what I've read, a firm crimp promotes 100% powder burn & consistant velocities.

 

[Charles Graff]

Like allot of questions in the area of reloading, the answer to this is "it depends". It depends on the hardness of the metal and the type of expander plug in your die.

Current production dies have expanding plugs .356" for .357 jacketed bullets. This works just fine for that purpose.

Shove hard cast .357 or .358 bullet into that case and you are still fine.

Shove a soft cast or swaged bullet into the same case and you might not be so fine, as the bullet might be distorted by the pressure to seat the bullet.

I use an old Lyman 310 expander in .358 to expand cases for swaged or soft cast bullet.

Crimp depends on the amount of case tension on the bullet. On a jacketed or hard cast bullet in a case expended .356 you will not need much crimp.

A soft cast or swaged bullet in a case expended .358 will have less tension by intent and may need a little more crimp.

The rule of thumb is just turn the case mouth in enough so you can't snag it with a fingernail and you will be just fine all the way around.

I agree 100% with others who seat and crimp in two different operations.

 

[fatman73]

I shot both today the heavy crimp and the lite both were fine no problems. I will stick with a lite crimp in the future i was just shooting 4 gr of hp38 so it was realy mild no need for a real hard crimp thanks for all the help

 

[Vulcan Bob]

I think crimping is the most difficult thing a reloader has to learn, once learned (like brain surgery) its easy. I have been useing the Lee taper crimp die for my light 38 Special loads and a Lee factory crimp die for the heavy loads requireing a firm roll crimp. With the Lee factory crimp die crimps are easily duplicated for future loads with the use of a index mark on top of the adjustment knob and marked on the load data sheet such as 1/2 turn or 3/4 turn and such. Hope this helps.

 

[arjay]

If you make up a dummy round with each type of bullet you intend to use its just a matter of fitting the die body and seating stem to the round you are going to load and the fine tuning only needs to happen once.

 

[fatman73]

I have a dummy for every style of 45 acp bullet i shoot its a great idea.

 

[hotrod150]

The only dummy to touch my press is me.

 

[pokute]

I finally settled on the Dillon roll crimp die, because it appears to me to produce a smooth crimp that nearly follows the profile of the crimp groove in the LSWC's that I shoot in my 38. I crimp just to the point where I can barely feel the edge of the case mouth with my (chewed up) fingernail. If I crimped any harder there would be no way to judge what I was doing, right?

If you load range brass you have to be careful to discard short cases. I typically load 250 rounds in a batch, and see about 5% short cases. 38 brass is really thin, and it seems to just slowly disappear!

I bought a total of FOUR crimp dies before I settled on the Dillon... I just had to be sure that I was getting what I thought was the right crimp. As several people stated already, do NOT seat and crimp in one step unless you don't much care where the bullets are going to go.

As for not crimping at all, I could probably get away with that. I use the Lyman M die for expanding, and the Redding "Pro" die for seating, and I can't budge the bullet by pressing it hard against my bench. But I'd be terribly embarrassed if a bullet weaseled out and jammed up my action and made me have to pack up and go home pretending that I was satisfied and done shooting for the day after driving 40 minutes to the range.

I confess that I've only been loading for a year. But I load single stage, and I load an hour or two every day to keep myself in bullets, so I think I know all the ways that you can f*** up. I have a box with 600 screwed up 45 ACP rounds sitting on my bench to remind me to be certain of what I am doing and not go crazy at the lever.

Oh, almost forgot. You may find that following the seemingly most sound advice produces utterly dreadful results. It all comes down to the hands of the shooter, and if you always, every single time you pull the trigger, pull the gun a tiny bit to the right, nothing you do on the loading bench will fix it.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Light crimps help the brass last longer but...............
some powders need a medium to heavy crimp to build up pressures to get good,steady velositys.

Fast powders are not affected as much as the slower powders
but you can see a difference . One target powder that works better with a heavier crimp is Trail Boss, at least in my guns.
3.3grs of TB with a hvy crimp gets 610fps with a +/- 14 es while 4.0grs of TB with a light crimp gets 640fps with a +/- 31 fps es in my snub nose.