38 +P in 64-3

[browningcollector]

I just picked up a 3 inch 64-3 and was wondering if it is safe for 38 +P ammo?

Thanks

Kelly

 

[Sevens]

Smith & Wesson's word on this subject is that if it is a revolver with a model number (meaning post-1957 or so and in this case "Model 64-3") and you are talking about an actual SAAMI recognized +P cartridge (and in this case, that answer is a solid YES, .38 Special+P) AND your revolver is not specifically excluded (as some aluminum frame revolvers were), then yes, your revolver is spec'd to safely and happily run that ammo.

A proper factory loaded SAAMI recognized .38 Special+P round is really not all that spicy. Regular .38 Special runs 17,000 PSI Max, .38 Special+P runs 18,500 PSI Max. (.357 Magnum runs 35,000 PSI Max!)

Here is a list that I find very helpful:
Max Chamber Pressure - SAAMI Specs
The key to all this is sticking with official SAAMI recognized cartridges. Buffalo Bore is quite often not one of these. And simply adding "+P" to some established cartridge is also outside of SAAMI recognition.

For a stretch in the 1980's, some LE Organizations carried ".38 Special+P+" ammo and some said it was simply .357 Magnum loaded in to .38 brass but the one thing we knew for certain was that we didn't actually know what it was. We know very, very well what .38 Special+P is... it's ammo that peaks at 18,500 PSI Max and no more.

It's absolutely safe in your 64-3.

 

[old bear]

If your revolver is in good condition, and I assume it is, it should be safe with any 38 special +P ammo. The +P marking is really a marketing name.

Shoot and enjoy your new revolver.

 

[QED]

A proper factory loaded SAAMI recognized .38 Special+P round is really not all that spicy. Regular .38 Special runs 17,000 PSI Max, .38 Special+P runs 18,500 PSI Max. (.357 Magnum runs 35,000 PSI Max!)

20k psi is SAAMI .38 special+P MAP.

Buffalo Bore is quite often not one of these. And simply adding "+P" to some established cartridge is also outside of SAAMI recognition.

That's an understatement. That BB "+P" pressure is undoubtedly not far from proof load pressure! Beware!

 

[wrangler5]

That's an understatement. That BB "+P" pressure is undoubtedly not far from proof load pressure! Beware!

Do you know of anybody who has run actual pressure tests on BB +P loads? I know their ammo tends to be stout - their non-+P 38 Special 158g lead HP equals the velocity of Remington's +P load with the same bullet out of the same gun. And they are explicit on the boxes of their 32 H&R Mag 100g JHP +P that the ammo is NOT for use in H&R guns.

But recent correspondence from BB about that 32 Mag load advised that it was safe for unlimited use in my 32 caliber J frames, including the Models 30 and 31 that have been reamed from 32 Long to 32 H&R. I have a hard time believing that the company would make that sort of statement about loads which were running near proof pressures.

Of course, their stuff is really too expensive to shoot very often, and it kicks hard enough in the J frames that it's not much fun to shoot anyway, so maybe they figure I'll never take 'em up on it. I've shot enough to zero my laser grip with it, but now expect to just carry the BB and shoot other (less potent) rounds for practice.

 

[QED]

Do you know of anybody who has run actual pressure tests on BB +P loads? I know their ammo tends to be stout - their non-+P 38 Special 158g lead HP equals the velocity of Remington's +P load with the same bullet out of the same gun. And they are explicit on the boxes of their 32 H&R Mag 100g JHP +P that the ammo is NOT for use in H&R guns.

But recent correspondence from BB about that 32 Mag load advised that it was safe for unlimited use in my 32 caliber J frames, including the Models 30 and 31 that have been reamed from 32 Long to 32 H&R. I have a hard time believing that the company would make that sort of statement about loads which were running near proof pressures.

Of course, their stuff is really too expensive to shoot very often, and it kicks hard enough in the J frames that it's not much fun to shoot anyway, so maybe they figure I'll never take 'em up on it. I've shot enough to zero my laser grip with it, but now expect to just carry the BB and shoot other (less potent) rounds for practice.

Evidently those who have tried to duplicate that BB .38 special "+P FBI load" have not been able to do so with less than WAAAAY above SAAMI +P MAP (and above major ammo manufacturers +P+). If anyone did an accurate pressure test, in accordance with SAAMI standards, on that BB "+P" load, it would undoubtedly be quite -- interesting. BB, of course, is not a member of SAAMI and has expressly stated that adherence to SAAMI standards -- is not desirable. Undoubtedly extra velocity sells especially if you can make sufficient number of customers buy the concept of a "magic powder" that exerts significantly more average force at less average maximum pressure!

 

[bananaman]

Congratulations on your 3" 64! As stated, you would be safe with factory +P ammo. Somebody's hand load may not be safe. (know what you are shooting) I am looking for a 3 incher myself. Had a 65, and traded it off. Bob

 

[wrangler5]

I have tried to duplicate BB loads (to practice with) but have never come close to their velocities with any of the powders I've tried at any of the maximum charges shown in reloading books. But then again, I couldn't duplicate the Speer Gold Dot short barrel 9mm loads, either. So I have long assumed that ammo makers do indeed have access to powder blends that we mere mortal reloaders don't

 

[ISCS Yoda]

The gain is not worth it IMHO but YMMV.

 

[QED]

I have tried to duplicate BB loads (to practice with) but have never come close to their velocities with any of the powders I've tried at any of the maximum charges shown in reloading books. But then again, I couldn't duplicate the Speer Gold Dot short barrel 9mm loads, either. So I have long assumed that ammo makers do indeed have access to powder blends that we mere mortal reloaders don't

Evidently no mere mortal has a magic powder that propels a 158 grain LSWCHP @ 1040 fps from a 1 7/8" barrel while remaining within "+P" MAP. To keep such a magic powder a secret from all but BB is extremely unlikely.

 

[m1gunner]

My Lyman manual from the late 80s has not only actual chronographed velocities for the listed loads, but also chamber pressure readings from pressure barrels shot in their lab.

While I can not verify the pressure, their chrono readings are very much inline with mine on the listed loads.

It would be interesting to compare velocities and bullet weights with the pressure readings in this manual.

Oh, and the 64 is just fine with commercial +P ammo.

 

[DWalt]

It would be very refreshing if someone actually performed and published laboratory chamber pressure tests on the BB ammo line. Until then, all anyone can do is guess. Yes, powder manufacturers do produce propellants specifically manufactured for the loading companies which are not available as retail canister powders. However, they are usually ballistically not very much different from available canister powders and have no magical powers. If they did, you can bet they would soon be sold as canister powders.

 

[QED]

There is no guessing that BB's "+P" LSWCHP significantly exceeds SAAMI +P MAP. That's obvious, unless one believes in utterly magic powder that only BB knows about. If those who buy this stuff don't care that BB DOES NOT have adequate pressure testing facilities and admittedly DOES NOT adhere to SAAMI standards -- why would anyone waste time and money testing this BB stuff with suitable pressure testing equipment?!

 

[shouldazagged]

I carry the standard-pressure BB 158gr, LSWCHP-GC in an all-steel J-frame. It has plenty of thump for my needs, essentially duplicating the good older Remington FBI load.

My gun is factory-etched "TESTED FOR +p+", But I haven't the slightest interest in trying that or shooting the BB "heavy" +P stuff.

Even in a 64, and I wish I had one, factory +P would suit me fine. I certainly wouldn't worry about shooting it.