.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please

[Col Defender]

In another thread I started a few days ago, you guys helped me by clarifying that .38 Special and .38 S&W are not the same. Thanks!

Since then I have found that Midway sells dies and brass for .38 S&W but none of my reloading manuals has data for this cartridge.

Anybody have recipes - just for plinking/practice with an oldie.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

 

[Col Defender]

In another thread I started a few days ago, you guys helped me by clarifying that .38 Special and .38 S&W are not the same. Thanks!

Since then I have found that Midway sells dies and brass for .38 S&W but none of my reloading manuals has data for this cartridge.

Anybody have recipes - just for plinking/practice with an oldie.

Thanks in advance.

Steve

 

[jrplourde]

Hi Col, Hodgdon site as two listings on 38 S&W

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

The Lyman manual has listings for three bullet wts and some of the standard powders.
For a 150 gr lead

Bullseye 2.1 gr 661 f/s 10,000 2.4 723 12700
231 2.1 588 8600 2.4 692 11800

Also listed N310, Titegroup, 700X, SR7635, True Blue

If I can help further let me know.

Bob

 

[Calaveras Slim]

Speer #14 has several also.

Should you decide to go with the 158gr RN, Midwayusa.com sells the Magtech and it has a hollow base that fills up the barrel quite nicely

 

[canoeguy]

My favorite all purpose .38 S&W load is 3.1 grains Unique behind a 158 grain LSWC bullet. Shoots to point of aim in my Victory Models and a Colt Police Positive.

What sort of revolver are you loading for? If it is an old top break revolver, I'd back down the powder charge some.

 

[jbouwens]

I use 2.4 grains of Win 231 under a 158 RNL bullet for my victory models. This load produces 500 f.p.s. on my chrono.

I use 2.1 grains for my top-break.

 

[terrier]

Lot depends on what handgun you have. I have a newer model Terrier in 38 S&W. I shoot the 125 swc lead bullets. My load is 4.0grs of Unique but I would start at 3.0 and watch for pressure. Mine shows no pressure signs but it does what I want so I'm not going above that. If I use the 158gr RN I use not over 3.0 of Unique. Wealth of information and expertiese here. All of us agree:start low and work up slow. This is not a hot rod round anyway.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I load a .360" 160gr bullet over a charge of 2.4gr W231 for a very clean and accurate load. I sometimes try to duplicate the old British WWII 38/200 load too.

Be very careful how hot you load any .38 S&W round. Most of the revolvers chambered in that caliber are rather weak and can be damaged but even the slightest over pressure round. *** If your revolver is an old "top break" S&W or similar revolver I would drop that charge down to 2.2gr W231. ***

 

[saskgunowner101]

I notice jrplourde mentioned Titegroup powder load data above, does anyone have a clue on rough charges for this cartridge? I have some 124 grain roundnose bullets, a whole bunch of Titegroup, but no load data. It seems to me I've saw mentioned around 1.8-2 grains, but I'm not about to go without a confirmed load. Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Titegroup is a fast burning powder that sits right next to Red Dot and slightly below Bullseye on the relative burn rate chart. I would think using Red Dot data as a starting point to extrapolate loading data would probably the place to look. I'm not telling you to do this, I'm only mentioning what I would probably do.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Titegroup

Call or email them. They are very personable and helpful. Ask them for a load.

Lots better to ask the horse's mouth than to get caught with what comes out of the other end!

 

[Hoptob]

There were quite a few .38 S&W loads in Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading" (1937). .38 S&W is supposed to be a weaker caliber but some of Phil's loads are much like .38 Special +P today.

Mike

 

[saskgunowner101]

Originally posted by smith crazy:

Titegroup

Call or email them. They are very personable and helpful. Ask them for a load.

Lots better to ask the horse's mouth than to get caught with what comes out of the other end!

I tried e-mail, then gave them a call. All the guy could tell me were the loads that were on the website, for Win-231 and HP38...nothing for Titegroup.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Wow! That is out of character! I have asked several times for loads and gotten them. In fact, I spoke to the one time about the 500Mag. I asked about a TrailBoss load. I was told to mark the case were the base of the bullet would go and fill it up to that point, seat and crimp the bullet and I was good to go! Now remember, that was with TrailBoss and the 500Mag, not the 38S&W!

Sorry for how they treated you, that's odd. I guess I would take a load for the mildest 38spl, reduce it, and see how it goes. You should be able to look at a 38spl load for the bullet you have, see what the load is with Titegroup, trying to compare how much another powder was reduced in the same way and go from there.

What are you going to shoot them in, Sas?

 

[Skip Sackett]

OK, I called. It just seemed WAY out of character for Hodgdon to be cantankerous.

I found out why they don't want folks to use Titegroup in the 38S&W. I think they are valid reasons, at least in this litigious society.

Most firearms that are chambered for this cartridge are the older top breaks. Most are not that well made nor are they mechanically sound now. I have an old "American" in the gun safe that was my wife's Great Grandfather's so, I understand their point.

In their estimation, the powder is too fast to be used in said firearms. A little too much and it is possible that parts will be flying around everywhere.

They suggest using something slower and their HP-38/W231 fills that bill.

In my summation of this information, I concur.

I did try to pry out of him some data that could be used in a "swing out" design and he wouldn't budge!

(Good training!)

Is that powder available locally? I have used it for years in many different calibers. 9mm to 45ACP.

In fact, one of my mentors in shooting, used to whip my fanny with his favorite load with W231 in a M625.

Think about it.

 

[saskgunowner101]

I told ya they wouldnt give up the goods!

The pistol in question is one of those old Enfield tanker pistols(ugly x 10). Just sort of a fun little thing to shoot. I'll look for some bottom end loads for 38 Special, and see if I feel lucky. I'm sure it's around 2 grains Titegroup. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.

 

[saskgunowner101]

Bringing this thread back from the dead!! I've ended up trying a few different loads since this was posted and am pleased to announce my eyes/fingers are intact.

Using cast bullets from a Lee TL356-124-TC, charges of Titegroup powder between 1.8-2.3 grains worked fine although on the lower end cases were blackened and a few over the chrony read high 390-low 400's fps. Charges of 2.1-2.2 grains Titegroup bounced between 515-560 fps....and shoot low.

I also tried an unknown to me 148 grain cast bullet with 2-2.3 grains Titegroup and these seemed to function the same. No chrony this time.

And finally, I tried the 124 grain bullets again with various charges between 2.5-3 grains Unique. These seem to have a little more zip to them actually seeming to have recoil. So in the end it all turned out fine.

These went through an old Enfield tanker, so I'm not suggesting they are the loads you should use. Just that they worked for me.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Did you really go and use Titegroup in the .38 S&W even though the powder manufacturer recommended against it? It's not like there are no suitable powders available for loading that caliber. Like I said above, I for VERY good results using W231/HP-38 and there is a lot of data available for Unique, Herco, Green Dot and a few others. IMO and the opinion of Hodgdon Titegroup is too fast a powder for the .38 S&W especially in older top-break revolvers.

 

[saskgunowner101]

I try not to play fast and loose with the rules, but figured a little extrapolation would work. Here's a burn rate chart.

Powder Burn Rates

Now, my modern reloading 2nd edition lists A nitro 100, bullseye, and red dot as suitable for the 38 S&W, giving burn rates of #5, #6, and #10. Titegroup is #12 on the list, so is in fact slower than the 3 other powders mentioned.

I also don't think Titegroup is the "ideal" powder for the 38, only that it will work. I think Unique is my choice for this caliber.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I try not to play fast and loose with the rules, but figured a little extrapolation would work. Here's a burn rate chart.

Powder Burn Rates

Now, my modern reloading 2nd edition lists A nitro 100, bullseye, and red dot as suitable for the 38 S&W, giving burn rates of #5, #6, and #10. Titegroup is #12 on the list, so is in fact slower than the 3 other powders mentioned.

I also don't think Titegroup is the "ideal" powder for the 38, only that it will work. I think Unique is my choice for this caliber.

Powder burn rate isn't the only consideration when using a powder in a certain caliber. If the manufacturer tells me not to use a powder in that caliber because there's a danger of some sort I would stay away from it especially since there are so many other powders available for use in the .38 S&W. Also, powder burn rates are relative to the caliber being loaded. In the .38 S&W Titegroup might burn faster than all the others mentioned above.