.38 Special loads with Unique

[bgrafsr]

I was reading about some of the loadings for .38 Special, using Unique, and decided to try 5.0 grains with 158 grain lead SWC's and JSP's.

I went to the range with my Model 66 and .38-44 Outdoorsman. At 25 yards, single and double action, off of a rest, the loads were fantastic. I was very happy.

I also tried 5.0 grains of W-W 231 and that load was very accurate too.

I was so happy with the Unique load, that I loaded up another 150 rounds this evening.

 

[Rule3]

Kinda, sorta of in the +P range.

Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide

 

[Andy Griffith]

Unique burns a bit cleaner in the +P range than at lower pressures. It's one of my favorite powders to use, and it is fairly adaptable across most of the cast loads too. I prefer it personally over 231 for most of my cast plinking loads. Anywhere from the 4.7grn range, IIRC for the 158grn LRN bullets I quite frequently use, and it works fairly well with some 200gr. "super police" type LRN bullets too in the sense that the standard deviation is quite low.

 

[336A]

I concur, Unique and the .38 SPL is like America and apple pie. It may not provide the fastest velocities in this cartridge as other powders do. However IMHO it has no equal across the entire spectrum of bullets that are suitable for the .38 SPL. It covers standard as well as +P loadings very well with either jacketed or cast bullets.

I'm Glad to hear that 5.0gr worked for well for you. I found that my particular M10 didn't take a shine to that charge weight at all much to my dismay. But it does very very well with 4.3gr, 4.6, 5.3gr and 5.4gr under a 158gr bullet. I stick with 4.6gr and up as I find it cleaner burning than the 4.3gr loading.
__________________________
If numbers killed I'd be hunting with a calculator

 

[Treeman]

OCD1, You are not "wrong" mentioning that 5gr of Unique is "kinda in the +P range" but I would submit that it is really in the standard velocity and pressure arena. Much of the current factory fodder is rather anemic and much of the data has been surpassingly so in the past 15 years or so. Alliant was particularly pathetic until the adquisition of Speer then suddenly their data became Speer data which is more realistic. 5 grains lands in the middle of max standard and max +P in their data........ However, much pressure tested data from Lyman and other sources spanning many decades has put 5 grains of Unique at standard pressures-often that is actually a tenth or two under max. Real world chronographing shows 5gr of Unique producing the long published ballistics of the .38 special (158 grain lead bullet at 860fps-6" barrel).Very little of current production ammo is matching the traditional ballistic standard. Some will say "better testing has resulted in charge weight reductions and the old ammo probably never delivered what was claimed".........but reading published testing spanning 8 decades has shown me that while not all of the factory ammo of decades past matched the advertised data, much of it DID.(Acknowledging of course that actual performance from revolver to revolver varies and some 4" guns are faster than some 6" guns with the same ammo) Given that tested data from the 1930s till now has shown 5 grains of Unique and 158 grain lead bullets to yield safe pressures while approximating standard performance for the caliber and that MANY past manuals often showed 10-20% heavier charges to be safe loadings, I am very comfortable with my own case measurements and chrono readings that indicate that 5gr Unique is a STANDARD pressure load with 158 grain lead bullets in .38 spl with every lot of Unique which I have tested.
Depending upon which powder lot I run through my measure using the same charge disc I get 4.8-5.0 grains and the variation in performance is small enough that I simply consider that charge volume as my standard load and label my reloads with the actually charge dropped (while finding that they will all shoot the same whether a batch is loaded with 4.8, 4.9, or 5.0)

All of which is of no great importance -but I think Bill is on the right track for a longterm satisfying .38 spl load that won't wear his revolver unduly but will deliver the goods.

 

[Andy Griffith]

Also, I forgot to add that the "new" Unique is a bit cleaner than the stuff made in the past. I don't know what they have changed, but it is marginally cleaner.

 

[bgrafsr]

Treeman:
That was a good dissertation that you provided. My hat is off to you.

OCD1:
I am very comfortable using that load in my .38-44's and .357's. I would also not hesitate to shoot it in my Model 10, 15, & 64. I more than likely would not shoot it in my Model 14's, except for the 14-2 Dayton gun (maybe).

 

[Paul5388]

I checked some Unique loads a few years ago and found 5.5 gr to be a little more than standard loads, but certainly less than .38-44 loads by a good amount. The gun used seemed to make a lot of difference in the velocity of the two lots of powder. One lot was from the 1930s or 1940s and the other lot was 2005.

You'll notice I did shoot these out of a 1949 M&P with no ill effects to the gun.

 

[kewpie]

I concur with Unique's 'uniqueness' for the .38.

In a 66-5 3.25" barrel and 158 - 160 LSWC, it seems, as I have read, that less than 4.5 contributes to leading (tho the bullets were swaged and I have since bought some Dardas hard cast 158.)

Overall, 4.5 seems to be fine, and any more than that seems unnecessary for target shooting. I tried 5 grains and saw little if any difference except the gun might have sensed it

I don't believe in loading any more than is acceptably accurate and clean in the barrel. Loading higher may not 'hurt' the gun but, IMO, it shows no benefit except to further tax the gun w/o good reason. I would rather save that for serious applications.

 

[Rule3]

Alliant lists 4.7 max of Unique

Speer lsts 4.0 to 4.7 for standard 38 spl, 4.7 to 5.2 for +P

Lyman lists 4.0 to 4.5

That's all I was saying.

The OP mentioned he was using 5. I did not know where that data came from.Never said it was good or bad.

 

[Skip Sackett]

I am one of the weirdos I guess. Never took a shine to Unique until much later in my reloading experience. I don't cotton too much to something that works well in most because it seldom works best in anything. Just my opinion, don't lynch me!

I do know of folks that have been shooting the 5gr load for years and years with no ill affect. Most likely it is one of the victims of litigation.

At any rate, in a 357 firearm, it ain't really gonna matter.

336A, good to see you post again!

 

[pdg45acp]

My Unique load for K and J frame Smiths is 4.5 grains and a Lyman cast 162 grain SWC that really weighs in about 165 grains.

 

[palmetto99]

158 grn SWC over 4.7 unique has become my .38 spl load. At 15 yards on the sand bag, Ihave been able to keep a 1" group with my "beater" model 19 (4" barrel). Shoots pretty well out of just about every revolver I have.

 

[WR Moore]

The late Skeeter Skelton referred to 5 gr of Unique and 158 gr bullet in .38 as "the thinking mans +P."

 

[AzShooter]

I just found the 5.0 grain Unique load with my 158 gr RNL bullets. It's a tack driver printing 1 inch groups at 25 yards from the bench.

%.4 grains with a 180 grain LBT bullet also prints under i inch and I'll be using that for my major caliber loads.

 

[nightshade2x]

I have a few loads I use that are similar with varying results. Keep in mind these loads are only shot in .357 frame guns. I don't crono, just go by feel and accuracy.

*I load a 148 hard cast DEWC with 4.9 Gr. current Unique, CCI 500 primer and seat to the top of the crimp groove with a mid taper crimp. This has been a total "powder puff" load, very accurate and virtually no recoil, tiny bit of leading. Very cheap to load. My favorite plinking load now.

*For a bit more heat I use a 158 Semi JSP with 5.7 Gr. current Unique, CCI 500 primer and seat to the middle of the cannelure with a mid tamper crimp. This load is VERY accurate but feels like a bit lighter .357 Mag. to me. It is not a target or plinking load by any means. It gets a bit more expensive to load these. I would use these for cheaper .357 practice and possibly a lighter hunting round.

I am working on a .357 158 Semi JSP load with Unique and a CCI 550 primer...

I take no liability for these loads...milage may vary.

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x

 

[ray45]

I have a few loads I use that are similar with varying results. Keep in mind these loads are only shot in .357 frame guns. I don't crono, just go by feel and accuracy.

*I load a 148 hard cast DEWC with 4.9 Gr. current Unique, CCI 500 primer and seat to the top of the crimp groove with a mid taper crimp. This has been a total "powder puff" load, very accurate and virtually no recoil, tiny bit of leading. Very cheap to load. My favorite plinking load now.
I take no liability for these loads...milage may vary.

Have fun and be safe.
Nightshade2x

This is very interesting information on your 148 DEWC Hard Cast Load in 38 special cases.

I am working with some loads using Unique and 38 special cases using the DEWC lead bullets. This is one I just finished this week. I haven't loaded for some time now and this is my first time back at the reloading bench, in a while. So, take it for what you will.

The 148 grain DEWC seats very low in the case. The lower the bullet is seated the more the pressure rises. I was very concerned with pressure when I loaded my 148 DEWC (not hard cast). I settled on 3.5 grains of unique with CCI SP Primers in 38 special cases. This worked very well for me. This is a little hotter than what is advised by some who really know much more than me. The general consensus is to drop this load to about 3.1 Grains of Unique. I may try this next time I load the 148 DEWC in 38 special cases. I shoot the 3.5 Unique loads in a loads in a 4" revolver.

I got some good advice about the DEWC Lead Bullets...Don't shoot them in a rifle. Bad things can happen. I have not tried this and will take others word for it.

Below is from another forum I posted.
Pictures and information of my results.
I am no expert and this is just my experience.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

I spent the day at the range today helping some Friends sight in their deer rifles. I took my 38 special reloads with me and shot a few rounds at the end of the day. I must say I am very pleased with the results. I was a little concerned that the loads might be a little hot, so I took my 4" L frame smith cs-1 357 to test the loads, as it is a stronger frame than my K frame Smith. I must say that for Unique it was a little cleaner than I remember. You may not even notice the powder residue on the revolver in the pictures below. There were no signs of pressure and only a very slight recoil to the revolver. A very smooth shooting and accurate little thumper. I may experiment with just a little less powder, but I would be happy to live with it just as is.

Here are pictures of the results. I only shoot standing off handed with my hand guns because I like to keep it real. I don't shoot any better off the bench anyway. Go figure!, I don't know why.
It was a beautiful day in the mid 60's and lots of sunshine in these 61 year old eyes. I am so thankful the pressure in my eyes from Glaucoma is under control. I love shooting hand guns at 15-30 yards, but I kept it at 7 yards today. I tend to think in terms of feet instead of yards at this point in my life.

Powder: Unique 3.5 grains
Primers: CCI small Pistol
Cases 38 Special
Bullet: 148 Grain DEBBWC... this is not hard cast bullets
Bullet seated to the top crimping groove with a light roll crimp

 

[Ceapea]

This is very interesting information on your 148 DEWC Hard Cast Load in 38 special cases.

I am working with some loads using Unique and 38 special cases using the DEWC lead bullets. This is one I just finished this week. I haven't loaded for some time now and this is my first time back at the reloading bench, in a while. So, take it for what you will.

The 148 grain DEWC seats very low in the case. The lower the bullet is seated the more the pressure rises. I was very concerned with pressure when I loaded my 148 DEWC (not hard cast). I settled on 3.5 grains of unique with CCI SP Primers in 38 special cases. This worked very well for me. This is a little hotter than what is advised by some who really know much more than me. The general consensus is to drop this load to about 3.1 Grains of Unique. I may try this next time I load the 148 DEWC in 38 special cases. I shoot the 3.5 Unique loads in a loads in a 4" revolver.

I got some good advice about the DEWC Lead Bullets...Don't shoot them in a rifle. Bad things can happen. I have not tried this and will take others word for it.

Below is from another forum I posted.
Pictures and information of my results.
I am no expert and this is just my experience.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

I spent the day at the range today helping some Friends sight in their deer rifles. I took my 38 special reloads with me and shot a few rounds at the end of the day. I must say I am very pleased with the results. I was a little concerned that the loads might be a little hot, so I took my 4" L frame smith cs-1 357 to test the loads, as it is a stronger frame than my K frame Smith. I must say that for Unique it was a little cleaner than I remember. You may not even notice the powder residue on the revolver in the pictures below. There were no signs of pressure and only a very slight recoil to the revolver. A very smooth shooting and accurate little thumper. I may experiment with just a little less powder, but I would be happy to live with it just as is.

Here are pictures of the results. I only shoot standing off handed with my hand guns because I like to keep it real. I don't shoot any better off the bench anyway. Go figure!, I don't know why.
It was a beautiful day in the mid 60's and lots of sunshine in these 61 year old eyes. I am so thankful the pressure in my eyes from Glaucoma is under control. I love shooting hand guns at 15-30 yards, but I kept it at 7 yards today. I tend to think in terms of feet instead of yards at this point in my life.

Powder: Unique 3.5 grains
Primers: CCI small Pistol
Cases 38 Special
Bullet: 148 Grain DEBBWC... this is not hard cast bullets
Bullet seated to the top crimping groove with a light roll crimp

Nice shootin'!
Do you shoot PPC? That kind of shooting would make for some nice scores. It looks like you use a pretty heavy crimp. But that is subjective I guess.

 

[ray45]

I have done a little 3 gun but I am honestly not a very good shooter now days. I think most shooters could shoot this load as well or better at 21 feet. I did have a fun day.
It is a heavy crimp and I am thinking it's not needed. I am going to work on that next time.

 

[kennyb]

i would add that unique is a darn good powder for 41mag.as well