.38 Special Military & Police Model of 1905 - 4th Change

[Mario1198s]

Hi everyone,

I recently aquired a collection of vintage firearms from my deceased grandfather which includes this old S&W revolver. I'm seeking input as to the exact model and date of manufacture. In searching photos on the internet, it appears to be an M&P 1905 4th change.

The serial number is 4423xx. The number on the crane is 91 628.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[DrMark]

That's beautiful.

 

[DCWilson]

Mario, welcome to the forum. You identified the gun correctly.That is a very nice 1905/Fourth.

That serial number would put the gun about 1923. The five digit number inside the crane is irrelevant for dating purposes; that's just an assembly control number that was used inside the factory.

Two things you might like to note that are consistent with the early date for this revolver: the knob at the end of the ejector rod is the "mushroom" shape, with a two-step profile. That style is found on the earliest hand ejector models (very late 1890s) went out of use about 1929. Also, the lack of medallions on the grips is consistent with 1920s manufacture. During the 'teens S&W grips had large recessed brass medallions at the top of each grip panel, and in the 1930s they had smaller, flush silver medallions.

That gun is really in spectacular condition. I don't see any evidence in that photo that would make me think it has been refinished. It is a great family heirloom.

The fixed sight .38 special revolvers have been S&W's bread and butter guns for over a century. They made 750,000 of them before WW2, and a couple of million more during the war and in the following decade. This model (with some engineering changes) was eventually named the Model 10 when the company went to model number designations in 1957. The specific variety you have (fourth change) was introduced in 1915.

You are lucky to have a family heirloom like that one, and doubly doubly lucky that it was preserved in such enviable condition.

 

[Mario1198s]

Mario, welcome to the forum. You identified the gun correctly.That is a very nice 1905/Fourth.

That serial number would put the gun about 1923. The five digit number inside the crane is irrelevant for dating purposes; that's just an assembly control number that was used inside the factory.

Two things you might like to note that are consistent with the early date for this revolver: the knob at the end of the ejector rod is the "mushroom" shape, with a wo-step profile. That style is found on the earliest hand ejector models (very late 1890s) went out of use about 1929. Also, the lack of medallions on the grips is consistent with 1920s manufacture. During the 'teens S&W grips had large recessed brass medallions at the top of each grip panel, and in the 1930s they had smaller, flush silver medallions.

That gun is really in spectacular condition. I don't see any evidence in that photo that would make me think it has been refinished. It is a great family heirloom.

The fixed sight .38 special revolvers have been S&W's bread and butter guns for over a century. They made 750,000 of them before WW2, and a couple of million more during the war and in the following decade. This model (with some engineering changes) was eventually named the Model 10 when the company went to model number designations in 1957. The specific variety you have (fourth change) was introduced in 1915.

You are lucky to have a family heirloom like that one, and doubly doubly lucky that it was preserved in such enviable condition.

Thank you for the thorough response David! The gun has been kept in a sock drawer for at least the last 50 years.

I fired the gun last weekend for the first time (6 rounds). She's a tack driver making one raged hole at 25 yards from a rest

I know appraisals are extremely subjective but could you give me a rough ball park range high & low on her for insurance purposes?

Thanks again!

 

[DCWilson]

You could probably sell it today for $500. I would put a value of $700-750 on it for insurance purposes. Others here who know these guns (or insurance) better than I do might have slightly different ideas.

 

[Skitchens]

Model 1905 4th change

Can somebody tell me if all the 1905 4 th change revolvers were chambered in 38 special?
I have a regulation police chambered in 38 s&w but has all the features of the 1905, except mine is nickel plated. And I haven't seen one nickel plated yet. Trying to find out what I have. Thanks for any insight you might give me.
Scott.

 

[DWalt]

A huge number of 1905/4s in .38 S&W was made for the British Commonwealth from 1940-45. The .32-20 was a standard chambering until WWII. And there have been others over the years.

 

[DWalt]

Mario1198s - I think $500 is possible for yours, but a little high. I would say more like $400. But with the anti-gun insanity now, I just do not understand prices anymore.

 

[DCWilson]

Can somebody tell me if all the 1905 4 th change revolvers were chambered in 38 special?
I have a regulation police chambered in 38 s&w but has all the features of the 1905, except mine is nickel plated. And I haven't seen one nickel plated yet. Trying to find out what I have. Thanks for any insight you might give me.
Scott.

Skitchens, welcome to the forum. The Regulation Police is a different model that is built on the company's smaller "I" frame. Since the gun is smaller, it is possible to fit only five .38 rounds into the cylinder instead of the six you get with the larger M&P. The Regulation Police was introduced in 1917 in both .32 Long (which was a six-shooter) and .38 S&W. Most S&W models were available in both blue and nickel finishes.

Can you post photos of your gun and tell us the serial number? Use XX instead of the last two digits if you prefer not to disclose the number fully.

 

[Skitchens]

Skitchens, welcome to the forum. The Regulation Police is a different model that is built on the company's smaller "I" frame. Since the gun is smaller, it is possible to fit only five .38 rounds into the cylinder instead of the six you get with the larger M&P. The Regulation Police was introduced in 1917 in both .32 Long (which was a six-shooter) and .38 S&W. Most S&W models were available in both blue and nickel finishes.

Can you post photos of your gun and tell us the serial number? Use XX instead of the last two digits if you prefer not to disclose the number fully.

I will try to post some pics asap. my serial number is 30xx from what I can tell?
Thanks for the welcome!

 

[DCWilson]

The serial number is found on the forestrap of a Regulation Police, right behind the trigger guard and above the strain screw. It is also repeated elsewhere on the revolver. The two spots most easily seen are the rear face of the cylinder and the flat underside of the barrel.

There are also misleading numbers to be found. If you swing the cylinder assembly out, you will see numbers on the inner surface of the frame and yoke that are hidden when the cylinder is closed. While serial numbers are found in that location on modern firearms, the numbers there on older revolvers are just soft-fitting numbers that have no meaning or informative value after a gun is completed and sent to inventory.

Almost 55,000 .38 RPs were manufactured between 1917 and 1940, so your gun would appear to be an early one if the number you gave is from the forestrap. It might have shipped in late 1917 or early 1919. There was little activity at the factory in 1918 other than production of large frame military revolvers in .45 caliber for use in the European conflict.

Here's a serial number locator photo: this particular .38 RP is really early manufacture -- first month of 1917.

 

[bpev9]

David, Please explain what soft fitting means. Thanks

 

[Rhetorician]

Mario, welcome to the forum. You identified the gun correctly.That is a very nice 1905/Fourth.

That serial number would put the gun about 1923. The five digit number inside the crane is irrelevant for dating purposes; that's just an assembly control number that was used inside the factory.

Two things you might like to note that are consistent with the early date for this revolver: the knob at the end of the ejector rod is the "mushroom" shape, with a two-step profile. That style is found on the earliest hand ejector models (very late 1890s) went out of use about 1929. Also, the lack of medallions on the grips is consistent with 1920s manufacture. During the 'teens S&W grips had large recessed brass medallions at the top of each grip panel, and in the 1930s they had smaller, flush silver medallions.

That gun is really in spectacular condition. I don't see any evidence in that photo that would make me think it has been refinished. It is a great family heirloom.

The fixed sight .38 special revolvers have been S&W's bread and butter guns for over a century. They made 750,000 of them before WW2, and a couple of million more during the war and in the following decade. This model (with some engineering changes) was eventually named the Model 10 when the company went to model number designations in 1957. The specific variety you have (fourth change) was introduced in 1915.

You are lucky to have a family heirloom like that one, and doubly doubly lucky that it was preserved in such enviable condition.

Dave,

New guy here from W. Tn. I just bought, at a local pawn shop, a 38 spc. 4" barrel that looks like my 32 Colt Police Positive. The guy said it was "pre-1957" because that was when the "Model 10" name was starting to be used.

Of course I have no pictures or serial number but want what information I can find. It is not pristine, not in the least and has been re-blued probably a time or two. Has some scratches on the frame. Only gave $199 for it. Tackle box or put in the glove compartment and leave it weapon.

I did not think I could miss buying a Smith that locked up tight and had a clean bore.

Any feedback will be welcome.

 

[DWalt]

i have a 38 s&w wanting to get some insight on like year, value and what kind of s&w it is heres some info ( smith & wesson 38 special ctg serial # 416704 its blued steel

You really should start a new thread. With the little information provided, about all that can be said is that it's a Military and Police (M&P) model. If there is no letter prefix to the serial number, it would be from around 1922-23. Good pictures would help immensely for your other questions.