380 EZ that doesn't like JHP

[FLJoe]

I have a 380 EZ (made July 2021) that doesn't seem to like cone-shaped JHP ammo. I've run about 300 or more rounds of regular ball ammo through it from three different manufacturers and three different magazines without a single hiccup of any sort. It feeds and fires 100% perfectly with any of the FMJ I've run. However, it totally refused to feed Fiocchi JHP. That ammo has a cone shaped bullet with pretty strong serrations on it. About every other round would hang going up the feed ramp and the slide wouldn't fully close.

I tried Hornady Critical Defense with the "FTX" bullet (with the little red plug in the hollow point- also a cone shaped bullet) and the first box ran fine, but the second box did the same thing as the Fiocchi on about 3 rounds. Not as bad, but obviously useless for self defense. I'd rather not rely on plain old FMJ ball in any gun I or my wife would ever want in a defensive situation.

Has anyone else had this issue with the cone shaped JHP ammo? It'll get the nose of the bullet into the chamber, but then hang up with the cartridge lodged at an angle trying to make the turn into the chamber and the slide about half shut.

 

[Funflyer]

Some 380's are picky with hollow point ammo, especially XTP and FTX bullets. The few mouse guns I own that don't run those bullet shapes will run 100% with Speer Gold-Dots and Hornady HST. Haven't seen Speer in a while but the HST is available.


Federal Premium Personal Defense Ammo 380 ACP 99 Grain HST Jacketed

 

[FLJoe]

Thanks for the link. I'll try those.

 

[URIT]

Have you tried any of the fluted ammo (Xtreme Defense) from Leigh Defense - now Wilson Combat - or Norma's NXD?

 

[NukeRef]

I have a 380 EZ (made July 2021) that doesn't seem to like cone-shaped JHP ammo ...

I tried Hornady Critical Defense with the "FTX" bullet (with the little red plug in the hollow point- also a cone shaped bullet) and the first box ran fine, but the second box did the same thing as the Fiocchi on about 3 rounds ...

Has anyone else had this issue with the cone shaped JHP ammo?

Your experience proves why you should run your defensive ammo through the gun every so often. For what it's worth, I have run the Hornady Critical Defense, 90 gr FTX in my 380 EZ without any issues. Your post prompted me to send another box downrange for reassurance, which I did today.

 

[routeburner]

Like NukeRef, I have (or my wife) has a .380 EZ and it shoots Hornady Critical Defense, 90 gr with no problems at all. Just as well as practice FMJ ammo.

 

[FLJoe]

Have you tried any of the fluted ammo (Xtreme Defense) from Leigh Defense - now Wilson Combat - or Norma's NXD?

I haven't tried these. I'm going to order a few boxes of the Federal that funflyer posted and see how those run. They have a round profile that's similar to the FMJ that runs fine. I'll give the Hornady another go and track which magazines I'm using. One of my mags had had a kinked spring, which I replaced. With others' experience with the Hornady, and my own good results with one box, it makes me think it may be a mag more than the ammo. The Fiocchi clearly wouldn't run right, from any box or any mag, so that was definitely the ammo, but now I'm not so sure on the Hornady. All this testing gets expensive. Makes my like my revolvers.

 

[Execpro]

It sounds like a mag issue to me. Have you had the mags apart to check that the spring is installed correctly? Have you checked the follower for any burrs? Have you checked for deformation on the mag feed lips?
Are the HP bullets hitting on the top of the BBL chamber (marks on the top of the hollow points)?
I have found some of these issues on a few new factory mags. I take my mags apart and inspect them, correcting issues.
I then take Rem oil or CLP and wipe down the inside of the mag body
(using a cleaning rod with patch) and go over the follower as well, then wipe out/off mag body and follower.
Most of the new S&W mag bodies are not smooth like the older ones and a coat of the oil as mentioned above after each shooting session takes care of any follower dragging problems.

Let us know how things work out.

 

[FLJoe]

I think you're right, it's a magazine issue. I have four magazines for the gun, and I can't visually see a difference between them, but there has to be.

One of the magazines seems perfectly reliable. It will pop into the gun easily when there are a full 8 rounds in the mag and one chambered in the gun. I like to keep it this way to get my full 9 round capacity when carrying. The other three take what I think is too much force to get to seat when the slide is closed and there's a round chambered. It seems like the springs are being too compressed at the bottom, and on a couple occasions I've found after inserting them on a closed gun, when I pull them back out and empty the magazine, the spring has two coils overlapped and it's bound up. One time this kinked the spring, and I got a new one. Other times I've been able to carefully pop the coils apart and the spring looks straight and undamaged.

I'm not sure what to do to fix this, other than to mark the one magazine that works well as the primary carry mag for SD, and the rest are backups, or to be loaded into an open gun. It seems like a possible design defect to me, in that you can damage a mag spring inserting on a closed gun. I'd read on reviews for this gun, people saying it takes a lot of force to seat a magazine when the gun is closed, but I've never read of it causing the magazine springs to get bound up. And why is one magazine so easy?

 

[Talldog]

I had that exact problem with 2 P365-380s, but they cleared up as they got more rounds. I assume that the feed ramps needed to smooth out.

 

[Execpro]

I would call S&W and tell them 3of4 mag springs are as you mentioned above with coils overlapping.
It is possible they put the wrong springs in your mags. Smith typically will send you new springs.
You can also check the GOOD spring against the other 3 after a shooting session before you correct the issue mentioned above and take pictures that can be e-mailed showing the bound springs if needed.
Your springs should NEVER bind up!

 

[FLJoe]

I do think a call to S&W is in order. Originally, the gun came with two mags. one of them was reliable, and the other got the spring binding. I called SW regarding the binding spring and they just sent me a whole new mag. That mag is the one that now works best in the gun and has never had a problem binding the spring. In the meantime, I ordered a new spring for the original bad mag, plus I ordered a whole new mag so I'd have 4 total.

As of now, I've figured out that one original mag that came with the gun is actually reliable and has never had a binding spring. The other one has bound its spring, even with the new spring installed, and the additional mag I ordered has bound its spring once. If I'm really careful I can pull the mag apart and un-bind the spring without bending it, but clearly there's something wrong with the mag design or those two mags in particular.

Maybe smith will want me to send them those mags. I'll let you know what I find. I doubt it's something with the gun over-compressing the magazine springs, but it's possible, I suppose, if something were out of spec at assembly. With the good mags I've now found that I can consistently feed the Hornady FTX JHP's, by the way. I must have been using a bad mag with those when I had the issues.

What I find interesting is that the two reliable magazines will insert on a closed gun with maybe 8-10 lbs of force (regardless of what ammo is in them- cone shaped or ball from different manufacturers) while the other two mags that bind springs require probably 20 lbs or more to seat.

 

[LVSteve]

Is it possible that the mags that suffer from the spring binding and require hard insertion are slightly bent? I would also compare the way the springs fit between the mags. I seem to recall somebody here had to relieve the underside of the follower to get the spring to seat properly. Cannot recall if that was a 9mm or 380 gun. Then there is the old "springs fitted inverted at the factory" possibility.

 

[FLJoe]

Is it possible that the mags that suffer from the spring binding and require hard insertion are slightly bent? I would also compare the way the springs fit between the mags. I seem to recall somebody here had to relieve the underside of the follower to get the spring to seat properly. Cannot recall if that was a 9mm or 380 gun. Then there is the old "springs fitted inverted at the factory" possibility.

Good question, and I'm going to take them apart to find out if I can see any issues. With these springs they all have yellow paint on the bottom third of the spring (I believe that denotes a newer design) but I'm going to pull apart the two bad mags and check everything in detail, including the followers.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It sounds like a mag issue to me. Have you had the mags apart to check that the spring is installed correctly? Have you checked the follower for any burrs? Have you checked for deformation on the mag feed lips?
Are the HP bullets hitting on the top of the BBL chamber (marks on the top of the hollow points)?
I have found some of these issues on a few new factory mags. I take my mags apart and inspect them, correcting issues.
I then take Rem oil or CLP and wipe down the inside of the mag body
(using a cleaning rod with patch) and go over the follower as well, then wipe out/off mag body and follower.
Most of the new S&W mag bodies are not smooth like the older ones and a coat of the oil as mentioned above after each shooting session takes care of any follower dragging problems.

Let us know how things work out.

You might also have to modify the spring a little and/or
also open up the top of the Mag's sides, to raise the angle of the ammo
so it will feed up your ramp, better.

Good luck, finding the problem.

 

[FLJoe]

Well, I found that Wolff now has a replacement spring for the 380EZ magazine that they advertise as 10% stronger. I've ordered a 3 pack. I'll swap the springs in the two problem mags and compare them to the two reliable OEM mags and see how it goes, both for spring binding and reliable feeding of the JHP ammo.

I really do want to get this sorted out. It's a great shooting gun, and I want to feel 100% comfortable carrying it. My normal carry gun is a 642 revolver, but there are times, depending on where my job takes me, that I feel a little more comfortable with the extra capacity, and the shield 380 isn't really that much bulkier to carry than a J frame.

 

[WR Moore]

You might also make sure the magazine springs are correctly installed. While it's not common, every once in awhile, someone doesn't pay full attention to what they're doing.

 

[jeeps]

You are blessed hollowpoints are a waste of time and money in the 380. John Brownings 380 FMJ Ball has been killing bad and good guys for over 100 years no problem. At any angle through bone and garments to reach the vitals. Hollow points in the 380 are a joke.

 

[FLJoe]

You are blessed hollowpoints are a waste of time and money in the 380. John Brownings 380 FMJ Ball has been killing bad and good guys for over 100 years no problem. At any angle through bone and garments to reach the vitals. Hollow points in the 380 are a joke.

You know, I've been thinking about the same thing. There seem to be so may hollow point options out there and I've been wondering more and more if it's all a waste on that small a cartridge, and if regular old ball isn't the best bet. The long-ish (for a 380) barrel on the EZ will help the hollow points, but enough to be worthwhile??

I do carry the gun sometimes, and it's more comforting knowing it's been 100% reliable, with any magazine, with any of the different brands of ball I've run in it. As of now that's what it's got in it.

 

[WR Moore]

There is a distinguished member here who was a state attorney. He reviewed several hundred shooting/homicide cases. His posted take on the .380 was that JHPs (if they expanded) frequently didn't penetrate far enough to reach vital areas. So the choice of ball/JHP could pretty much be determined by a coin flip.

Relevant quote (as close as I can recall) from him: "Shot placement is king, penetration is queen, everything else is angels dancing on the head of a pin."