rrockefe
Member
Can someone tell me if there is any difference between these two pistols, other than the rail? I'm wondering about the parts interchangeability between them.
Thanks,
Ron
Thanks,
Ron
3913 TSW vs standard 3913
- Thread starter rrockefe
- Start date
Register to hide this ad
ColbyBruce
Member
The grip and magazine are one round shorter on the original TSW, which is the only one I ever handled.
James&theGiant1911
Member
The TSW has tighter tolerances so I would not put regular 3913 parts on a TSW.
Depends on which 3913 TSW you are referring to.
3913 standard configuration, 8rd capacity.
3913 TSW "TACTICAL" : compact frame, basically the mag well is notched and the mag sets into the recess, hence the 7rd capacity.
Otherwise I believe slide, frame and internals are interchangeable.
3913TSW "9 TACTICAL Smith & Wesson" : same size frame as standard 3913, utilizes same 8rd mags. However the slide and frame are machined as a matched set, so slide and frame would not be interchangeable but I believe the internals are interchangeable.
3913 standard configuration, 8rd capacity.
3913 TSW "TACTICAL" : compact frame, basically the mag well is notched and the mag sets into the recess, hence the 7rd capacity.
Otherwise I believe slide, frame and internals are interchangeable.
3913TSW "9 TACTICAL Smith & Wesson" : same size frame as standard 3913, utilizes same 8rd mags. However the slide and frame are machined as a matched set, so slide and frame would not be interchangeable but I believe the internals are interchangeable.
This is not correct. The slide and frame rails are thicker on the TSW and not interchangeable. You can not put a regular 3913 top end on the frame of a pre rail 3913TSW. I've tried as I have several 3rd generation guns. I can't say whether or not the other internals are the same, but the slide and frame are not interchangeable.
The TSW slide & frame rails have larger Box-type rails compared to the smaller, regular stepped rails of the other 3rd gen guns, and they aren't interchangeable with other 3rd gen guns.
The barrels are different, too. Not only among the standard 3913's of different vintages, but among the TSW's.
The original 3913/4513TSW barrels lacked the loaded chamber inspection hole of the later production TSW's. Also, I think it was a profile change on the barrel that allowed for the delayed unlocking (intended to help mitigate felt recoil on the TSW's). The barrel hoods are thicker, too.
The older 3913's had slides with machined breech faces (shoulders to hold the cases) and the barrels had narrow tabs (rear of hood). The slides had the older, narrow rear sights, too.
The breech faces were later cut wide at the top (and wide/straight inside, eliminating the machined shoulders), and the barrel tabs were correspondingly changed to match.
Obviously, slides and barrels of the different vintages aren't individually interchangeable.
Aside from the changeover from machined carbon steel parts to MIM parts (trigger, hammer, sear), and some steel parts to plastic (disconnector & mainspring plunger, or "cup"), the bulk of the parts & assemblies in the standard guns and the TSW's are pretty much the same. Sure, there have been continual revisions and minor improvements in design & manufacturing. Things like newer extractors & ejectors; sharp angles, cuts & corners have been eliminated on drawbars to help prevent stress risers; pointed drawbar plungers (versus flat/square ends); the hole added to the front of the drawbar plunger spring tunnel; overall better machining (CNC), etc.
Just some quick & dirty differences off the top of my head. Probably much better, more detailed threads elsewhere.
Care must be taken when fitting "new" old barrels to used guns, especially when alloy frames are involved. The normal peening that occurs in an aluminum frame's camming shoulders/cuts may not accept another barrel and allow for smooth unlocking/locking, and the release points at the top of the frame cuts are critical to having proper timing occur in cycling/locking. Then, there's the potential for having to dress/fit barrel tabs to work with other slides.
None of this is kitchen-table smithing. Best left to the gunsmiths, techs and armorers who have the training, experience & tools (and parts ).
The barrels are different, too. Not only among the standard 3913's of different vintages, but among the TSW's.
The original 3913/4513TSW barrels lacked the loaded chamber inspection hole of the later production TSW's. Also, I think it was a profile change on the barrel that allowed for the delayed unlocking (intended to help mitigate felt recoil on the TSW's). The barrel hoods are thicker, too.
The older 3913's had slides with machined breech faces (shoulders to hold the cases) and the barrels had narrow tabs (rear of hood). The slides had the older, narrow rear sights, too.
The breech faces were later cut wide at the top (and wide/straight inside, eliminating the machined shoulders), and the barrel tabs were correspondingly changed to match.
Obviously, slides and barrels of the different vintages aren't individually interchangeable.
Aside from the changeover from machined carbon steel parts to MIM parts (trigger, hammer, sear), and some steel parts to plastic (disconnector & mainspring plunger, or "cup"), the bulk of the parts & assemblies in the standard guns and the TSW's are pretty much the same. Sure, there have been continual revisions and minor improvements in design & manufacturing. Things like newer extractors & ejectors; sharp angles, cuts & corners have been eliminated on drawbars to help prevent stress risers; pointed drawbar plungers (versus flat/square ends); the hole added to the front of the drawbar plunger spring tunnel; overall better machining (CNC), etc.
Just some quick & dirty differences off the top of my head. Probably much better, more detailed threads elsewhere.
Care must be taken when fitting "new" old barrels to used guns, especially when alloy frames are involved. The normal peening that occurs in an aluminum frame's camming shoulders/cuts may not accept another barrel and allow for smooth unlocking/locking, and the release points at the top of the frame cuts are critical to having proper timing occur in cycling/locking. Then, there's the potential for having to dress/fit barrel tabs to work with other slides.
None of this is kitchen-table smithing. Best left to the gunsmiths, techs and armorers who have the training, experience & tools (and parts
).
Last edited:
Yeah, what he said! 
The TSW slide & frame rails have larger Box-type rails compared to the smaller, regular stepped rails of the other 3rd gen guns, and they aren't interchangeable with other 3rd gen guns.
The barrels are different, too. Not only among the standard 3913's of different vintatges, but among the TSW's.
The original 3913/4513TSW barrels lacked the loaded chamber inspection hole of the later production TSW's. Also, I think it was a profile change on the barrel that allowed for the delayed unlocking (intended to help mitigate felt recoil on the TSW's). The barrel hoods are thicker, too.
The older 3913's had slides with machined breech faces (shoulders to hold the cases) and the barrels had narrow tabs (rear of hood). The slides had the older, narrow rear sights, too.
The breech faces were later cut wide at the top (and wide/straight inside, eliminating the machined shoulders), and the barrel tabs were correspondingly changed to match.
Obviously, slides and barrels of the different vintages aren't individually interchangeable.
Aside from the changeover from machined carbon steel parts to MIM parts (trigger, hammer, sear), and some steel parts to plastic (disconnector & mainspring plunger, or "cup"), the bulk of the parts & assemblies in the standard guns and the TSW's are pretty much the same. Sure, there have been continual revisions and minor improvements in design & manufacturing. Things like newer extractors & ejectors; sharp angles, cuts & corners have been eliminated on drawbars to help prevent stress risers; pointed drawbar plungers (versus flat/square ends); the hole added to the front of the drawbar plunger spring tunnel; overall better machining (CNC), etc.
Just some quick & dirty differences off the top of my head. Probably much better, more detailed threads elsewhere.
Care must be taken when fitting "new" old barrels to used guns, especially when alloy frames are involved. The normal peening that occurs in an aluminum frame's camming shoulders/cuts may not accept another barrel and allow for smooth unlocking/locking, and the release points at the top of the frame cuts are critical to having proper timing occur in cycling/locking. Then, there's the potential for having to dress/fit barrel tabs to work with other slides.
None of this is kitchen-table smithing. Best left to the gunsmiths, techs and armorers who have the training, experience & tools (and parts
nocents
Member
after reading Fastbolts post I started thinking about how different can they be??.........
........I lined up the early variant with all machined components..the later version with MIM parts and the later NL variant....yep...every difference that FB mentioned was plain to see after being pointed out....even after cleaning these guns each time out my untrained eye didn't notice the difference in the size of the breech face...its a little embarrasing ...the later versions have a lot of extra machining around the ejection port also that may make it easier for spent casing to eject but I didnt try to measure it.....it just looks a little better....I did learn something else from FB post as I always do..........that I got a lot to learn...
........I lined up the early variant with all machined components..the later version with MIM parts and the later NL variant....yep...every difference that FB mentioned was plain to see after being pointed out....even after cleaning these guns each time out my untrained eye didn't notice the difference in the size of the breech face...its a little embarrasing ...the later versions have a lot of extra machining around the ejection port also that may make it easier for spent casing to eject but I didnt try to measure it.....it just looks a little better....I did learn something else from FB post as I always do..........that I got a lot to learn...
Yes, they'll just stick out the bottom of the grip a little, because of the extra length needed to accommodate the 8th round in the standard magazine.
Jeppo
Member
Note the TSW (left) has Hogue aftermarket grips.
Attachments
Last edited:
The cutaway front portion of the grip frame of the original 3913TSW (and 4513TSW) required a 1rd shorter magazine body in order for the mag buttplate to become flush with the bottom (rear) of the grip frame.
In the standard 3913/908/457 guns, and the subsequent TSW models in the 9/.45 compacts, the standard magazines have their bodies and buttplates stick below the grip frame. Using them in the early TSW compacts means not only do you see the mag body in the cutaway grip, but the slightly longer mag bodies & standard buttplates are going to sit lower below the grip frame.
Kind of like using a standard 8rd 3913/908 mag in a shorter CS9, which uses the same 7rd mags as the early 3913TSW (but with a different buttplate).
I never took a pic of my early model 4513TSW with the standard 7rd mag in it, but here's a pic of it (with its 6rd mag), and my formerly issued new production 4513TSW (with its 7rd mag). Imagine the way the longer mag body would show in the cutaway portion, and how the bottom of the slightly longer 7rd mag would sit below the bottom of the grip.
I'm sure someone will come along and post older pics of their original 3913TSW with a standard 8rd mag in it.
It would be similar to someone having their 457/4513TSW with the standard 8rd .45 mag in it from a 4506/4566/4566-4563TSW.
Last edited:
Kinda depends on the condition and the market in your area.
They aren't going to be making any more of them, so there's a finite number of them that are going to be available from now on.
How much do you want to own one?
They aren't going to be making any more of them, so there's a finite number of them that are going to be available from now on.
How much do you want to own one?
Jeppo
Member
It wasn't when I finally found mine. And it sure won't be if I'm ever crazy enough to sell it.
Again, it depends which one... pre-rail or railed.
In my opinion, $500.00 for a top condition pre-rail with 2-3 mags would be a genuine bargain.
I'd snap that up so fast your head would spin! 
For the later "mustache-railed" version, I'd say $500 would be just about right these days in similar condition/number of mags... or at least I wouldn't go much over that price.
But as always, condition is everything... plus (original factory) boxes and mags add value. Fewer mags take away value.
I still think the original (non-TSW) Model 3913 represents the best value of all for at least $100 less... but keep in mind that I am not wealthy nor a big mustache rail kind of guy.
Has anyone mentioned that it depends on condition?
I'll try not to be too repetitious here.
I bought my pre rail 3913TSW about six years ago for $425.00, no box, two magazines.
I bought my rail 3913TSW about three years ago, for $450.00 with no box, two magazines.
I bought my pre rail 3953TSW ANIB for $600.00, about 1 1/2 years ago.
The to 3913s were in very good condition. I was pleased that I got them at such reasonable prices, but I am not a collector as is TTSH. I expect that all of my guns will do some holster time.
The 3953TSW was at the high end of what I wanted to pay, but since it might be the only one in MA and it's not on our "approved roster", I knew that I might never see one again. So, I gulped a bit and paid.
So, two factors to consider. Condition and how much you desire to own a particular gun.
I'll try not to be too repetitious here.
I bought my pre rail 3913TSW about six years ago for $425.00, no box, two magazines.
I bought my rail 3913TSW about three years ago, for $450.00 with no box, two magazines.
I bought my pre rail 3953TSW ANIB for $600.00, about 1 1/2 years ago.
The to 3913s were in very good condition. I was pleased that I got them at such reasonable prices, but I am not a collector as is TTSH. I expect that all of my guns will do some holster time.
The 3953TSW was at the high end of what I wanted to pay, but since it might be the only one in MA and it's not on our "approved roster", I knew that I might never see one again. So, I gulped a bit and paid.
So, two factors to consider. Condition and how much you desire to own a particular gun.
You should again confess how you stole that gun from me!
15 minute quicker and that gun would have been mine! ++++++++++
ETA: p.s., Has it been that long already?
Last edited:
Maybe two years, maybe three. I'm not home now so I can't look at the paperwork to get the exact date.
I'll add apropos your comment, the time to buy a rare gun that you want is when you see it. I've lost a couple along the way because I dithered and "thought about it" until someone else went and bought it.
The gun you are talking about, I was on the way to the shop when I called them. If they'd sold it, I'd have just turned around.
I'll add apropos your comment, the time to buy a rare gun that you want is when you see it. I've lost a couple along the way because I dithered and "thought about it" until someone else went and bought it.
The gun you are talking about, I was on the way to the shop when I called them. If they'd sold it, I'd have just turned around.
You should again confess how you stole that gun from me!
++++++++++
ETA: p.s., Has it been that long already?
