3913TSW shoots low

[GaryS]

Normally the answer would be "No, you're shooting low, the gun is fine.", but my other 3rd generation guns shoot more reliably to point of aim. They 3913TSW hits consistently about 4" below point of aim. Sight alignment seems fine, as does my sight picture.

I'm going to work on the grips as I've mentioned in other threads, that might be part of it. Right now it has Hogue grips that are cut to fit the "notch" at the bottom of the pre rail grips. They feel pretty good, but the gun is a tad bit "loose" in my hand. I'm going to revert to stock grips with a Pachmayr grip glove and see if I can reproduce the great feel and grip on my 6906 with Hogue wrap around grips with finger grooves.

My other thought is ammunition. I'm mostly using 115 gr jacketed round nose for the range. I carry 124gr JHP most of the time and have enough of it that I can and will try a few magazines to see if that improves the point of impact. I know that different guns work better with different ammunition, so I want to experiment.

FWIW, I changed the OEM sights for Meprolight night sights. I had the gun at the range a number of times before, but I just can't remember if it shot low with the OEM sights. One other thing I'm thinking about it doing a slide swap with my regular 3913 and seeing what, if anything, that does to the point of impact.

I'll of course only change one variable at a time so I can see what impact the changes might have on point of impact. I'd appreciate any other thoughts, especially if it turns out that the night sights are the issue.

Thanks.

 

[18DAI]

Those Meprolights may be the problem. Do they sit high on the gun? Is the front sight taller than the front sight on your standard 3913?

I purchased a used PC 4566 CQB that had a set of Meprolight night sights on it. The PC 45 shot low with them. I sent it to the Performance Center earlier this year and had Novak low mount night sights installed. The gun now shoots to POA.

The other thing I would suggest is using some 147 grain 9mm rounds to see where they print. I only use 147 grain Winchester Ranger RA9B in my 9mm's. The Winchester LE rep told me it is what they suggest for LE 9mm guns with short (sub 4 inch) barrels.

As you know my new to me CS9 shoots low with everything except 147 grain rounds. Good luck! Hope this helps! Regards 18DAI

 

[Fastbolt]

S&W offered some shorter front posts for the 9's, and it's not uncommon to hear about some older 3913's occasionally needing a shorter front post to elevate the POI to match the POA.

Of course, it helps to know that it's really a tall front post responsible, and not the shooter.

Since you've changed to night sights, you might call the sight company and discuss it with them. They might (or might not) be aware of this potential issue and offer to let you switch the front sight.

FWIW, I've used a lot of major-maker 115, 124, 127 & 147 gr loads in my 3913 over the years, and they've all seemed to have worked well enough, accuracy-wise, to let me make called hits on wooden clothespins at close range (5-7yds). Other folks may be better shots and require more precision in ammo, but I'm not a target/competitive shooter.

 

[GaryS]

Thanks. I'll have to track down the customer service number for Meprolight and see if I can get in touch with them.

As for ammunition, from the various discussions on this forum it seems that if you ask five people, you get six answers. The two front runners seem to be 147 and 124gr. I have some of both, but have been carrying the 124 of late. The 155 I have is strictly range fodder.

I'm not planning to shoot clothes pins at 5-7 yards, although that seem like a good practice drill. Of course I did shoot 12 gauge hulls at 100 yards once.

With a Barrett .50.

Using a scope that I could have probably read newspapers on the moon with.



Not the same thing.

S&W offered some shorter front posts for the 9's, and it's not uncommon to hear about some older 3913's occasionally needing a shorter front post to elevate the POI to match the POA.

Of course, it helps to know that it's really a tall front post responsible, and not the shooter.

Since you've changed to night sights, you might call the sight company and discuss it with them. They might (or might not) be aware of this potential issue and offer to let you switch the front sight.

FWIW, I've used a lot of major-maker 115, 124, 127 & 147 gr loads in my 3913 over the years, and they've all seemed to have worked well enough, accuracy-wise, to let me make called hits on wooden clothespins at close range (5-7yds). Other folks may be better shots and require more precision in ammo, but I'm not a target/competitive shooter.

 

[Fastbolt]

... Of course I did shoot 12 gauge hulls at 100 yards once.

With a Barrett .50.

Using a scope that I could have probably read newspapers on the moon with.



Not the same thing.

There once was a time when my eyes would allow me to more clearly see a 6" steel plate at 90 yds, and hit it with my G26 much more often than not. Of course, the trick with that was to figure out which adjacent plate to aim at in order to hit the intended one stacked next to it. (Vertical dueling tree)

 

[tom-tom]

The front Meprolight on my CS9 is slightly taller than the factory, which exasperates my natural tendency to shoot low. I know there are other heights available.

 

[GaryS]

I did a quick side by side comparison of the front sights on my 3913 TSW and 6906. To my eye, they look identical, but I'll measure them more accurately when I get a few minutes.

My range trip is cancelled because of wind and rain. Which is too bad because the temperatures are in the low 70s today. I probably won't see temps like that until next spring. I can use the indoor range, but I don't like that nearly as much as shooting outside.

The front Meprolight on my CS9 is slightly taller than the factory, which exasperates my natural tendency to shoot low. I know there are other heights available.

 

[GaryS]

The story continues.

I went to the range with the TSW today to try out the sights again, paying more attention to site alignment. I don't know why, but I found that if I raise the front sight so that the ears on the rear slide are even with the front of the slide (got that?), I hit to point of aim.

If I aligned the front sight with the top of the rear sight ears, then I shot low.

I also brought along my 3914 for comparison. Using the conventional sight alignment, I shot to point of aim.

Looking at the front sights, the height is identical or nearly enough so that I don't think the front sight is the issue.

Would a rear sight with a higher profile cause the low shooting problem?

I was going to swap the slides and barrels, but I found out another interesting fact. The rails on the 3913TSW are a bit thicker than on the non TSW guns. I know that the later TSW guns have matched slides and frames, but I've never read that the no rail versions did. They do have beefier frame rails though.

I also tried the barrel and slide from my 6906 and had the same result.

I wonder if it would be worth it on the next trip to just swap barrels, assuming the non TSW barrel will fit in the slide of the TSW.

I don't think it's anything I can't live with and I don't think I'm going to spend the money to have the original sights put back on. I still might call Meprolight and see what they have to say.

Edit: Scratch the last line. Apparently Meprolight isn't helpful with the issue. I did what I should have done before I bought the sights and searched on line. There are several posts, some on this forum, about the problem. It seems to go across platforms and brands. Kahr, XD, M&P, Sig, etc... It's a common complaint.

Next time I'll buy another brand, I guess.

 

[arjay]

A taller rear sight will shoot higher.

 

[GaryS]

A taller rear sight will shoot higher.

Thanks, that makes sense.

Oh, and one other thing. I brought along a Model 10-6 because I had some ammo that I bought which I wanted to test. The short story on that is it's commercially reloaded, JHP ammo. It was cheap enough that I can use it as target ammo, so I wanted to try a sample box to make sure it was reliable and safe to shoot.

Anyway, I shot that better than either of my 3rd gen semis. Maybe I should go in search of a 3" round butt version for SD carry!

 

[blujax01]

Heavier ammunition will definitely hit higher.

 

[GaryS]

Heavier ammunition will definitely hit higher.

I'll have to try that next. I have been using 115gr because I have a lot of it. As I said, my other 9mm 3rd gen guns hit pretty much to point of aim when I use normal sight alignment.

I'll dig around the ammo cabinet and see if I have some heavier FMJ to try.

 

[Lost Lake]

Put me first in line for that 3913TSW if you decide to sell it!!


.

 

[shawn mccarver]

Normally the answer would be "No, you're shooting low, the gun is fine.", but my other 3rd generation guns shoot more reliably to point of aim. They 3913TSW hits consistently about 4" below point of aim. Sight alignment seems fine, as does my sight picture.

I'm going to work on the grips as I've mentioned in other threads, that might be part of it. Right now it has Hogue grips that are cut to fit the "notch" at the bottom of the pre rail grips. They feel pretty good, but the gun is a tad bit "loose" in my hand. I'm going to revert to stock grips with a Pachmayr grip glove and see if I can reproduce the great feel and grip on my 6906 with Hogue wrap around grips with finger grooves.

My other thought is ammunition. I'm mostly using 115 gr jacketed round nose for the range. I carry 124gr JHP most of the time and have enough of it that I can and will try a few magazines to see if that improves the point of impact. I know that different guns work better with different ammunition, so I want to experiment.

FWIW, I changed the OEM sights for Meprolight night sights. I had the gun at the range a number of times before, but I just can't remember if it shot low with the OEM sights. One other thing I'm thinking about it doing a slide swap with my regular 3913 and seeing what, if anything, that does to the point of impact.

I'll of course only change one variable at a time so I can see what impact the changes might have on point of impact. I'd appreciate any other thoughts, especially if it turns out that the night sights are the issue.

Thanks.

Easiest answer: Use "Kentucky elevation." Aim high!

 

[GaryS]

Put me first in line for that 3913TSW if you decide to sell it!!

As The Duke said, "That'll be the day!"

 

[GaryS]

Easiest answer: Use "Kentucky elevation." Aim high!

I could do that too. I just don't like the idea of the night sights shooting low. As I said, it seems to be a bug with Meprolights. I'll keep that in mind if I decide to put night sights on another firearm.

On a more positive note, the Pachmayr Grip Glove I bought fits over the Hogue grip quite well and closely imitates the grip on my 6906. Which is the best grip I've ever had on a handgun.