3rd Gen frame/slide internal wear

[1ActuaL3]

Afternoon everyone! I just picked up a S&W 3953TSW and noticed some heavy wear on the internals. Now I'm curious if this is related to round count (used to be a LE pistol) or some other kind of excessive wear. As for the pistol, is there any way I can prevent it from damaging itself more? Looks to me that the slide rails created a "scoop" and is digging into the frame rails. Also curious if a gunsmith could round those sharp edges off… What do y'all think?

 

[18DAI]

Congrats on your new pistol!

That wear is normal and yours does not appear to be bad at all. I would guess less than 1K rounds through that gun.

High round count aluminum 3rd Gen frames can look pretty gnarly sometimes, but they still hold up and function well. Especially the TSW series guns.

My +5K rounds 3913 looks way worse and still shoots like a laser with 100% reliability. To preserve your pistol and slow excessive wear, use a synthetic grease on the frame rails and change your recoil spring every 2500 to 3K rounds.

Do that and your Grandchildren will enjoy that fine nine. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI

 

[MattB]

Since the 3953 has an anodized aluminum frame, you will inevitably have wear where the rails were anodized. I don't think that wear is excessive. I have a Beretta 92FS Inox that has similar anodizing wear on its rails and I've never had any issues.

 

[1ActuaL3]

Congrats on your new pistol!

That wear is normal and yours does not appear to be bad at all. I would guess less than 1K rounds through that gun.

High round count aluminum 3rd Gen frames can look pretty gnarly sometimes, but they still hold up and function well. Especially the TSW series guns.

My +5K rounds 3913 looks way worse and still shoots like a laser with 100% reliability. To preserve your pistol and slow excessive wear, use a synthetic grease on the frame rails and change your recoil spring every 2500 to 3K rounds.

Do that and your Grandchildren will enjoy that fine nine. Hope this helps. Regards 18DAI

Awesome, you made my day. Glad to have this one in good condition. It will have many more years of service in its life time!

 

[1ActuaL3]

Since the 3953 has an anodized aluminum frame, you will inevitably have wear where the rails were anodized. I don't think that wear is excessive. I have a Beretta 92FS Inox that has similar anodizing wear on its rails and I've never had any issues.

Okay good to know! I've only had the steel frame ones and hadn't seen similar wear. Either way I appreciate your reassurance!

 

[GaryS]

I shoot my CS9 and pre rail 3913TSW the most and the rails look about like that. Follow 18DAI's advice and you'll be a happy 3rd Gen owner for a long time.

 

[surfgun]

Run grease on those rails.
The previous user should have.

 

[JohnHL]

Maybe it's my eyes, but I couldn't see any appreciable wear to the slide rails in the three pictures presented.

Most wear on the alloy frame pistols occurs at the interface of the barrel and frame camming lugs that often tends to look bad but typically plateaus after a period of time.

Work hardening of the alloy frame, I assume.

I didn't see any pictures of the frame's lugs, but in two of the pictures, I thought I saw peening on the lower edge of the right side barrel lug.

The barrel lug is steel!!!

If it is peening, I would be very concerned.

I've never experienced any peening of a barrel lug in any of my pistols, even the steel frame models.

Pictures of the barrel and frame lugs would be helpful.

John

 

[stansdds]

The edges of the barrel cam lugs do look questionable. I cannot imagine the aluminum receiver damaging stainless steel lugs, but there is a history of pistols leaving the factory with barrel lugs that have burs. Those burs are quite capable of damaging the aluminum cam block surfaces of the receiver.


The receiver's slide rails look a bit worn, but that happens with aluminum receivers. What will make that worse is running the pistol with dry rails. S&W recommends a very light amount of oil, but this, along with the barrel cam lugs, is where I like a very thin smear of white lithium grease.


I'd really like to see more pics of the barrel cam lugs and the cam blocks in the receiver.

 

[18DAI]

Not sure, from the pics, but there appears to be some carbon build up and some grime on the lugs. At least thats what I see.

I don't see peening. What is there, on an aluminum frame, that could peen steel barrel lugs? Regards 18DAI

 

[1ActuaL3]

The edges of the barrel cam lugs do look questionable. I cannot imagine the aluminum receiver damaging stainless steel lugs, but there is a history of pistols leaving the factory with barrel lugs that have burs. Those burs are quite capable of damaging the aluminum cam block surfaces of the receiver.


The receiver's slide rails look a bit worn, but that happens with aluminum receivers. What will make that worse is running the pistol with dry rails. S&W recommends a very light amount of oil, but this, along with the barrel cam lugs, is where I like a very thin smear of white lithium grease.


I'd really like to see more pics of the barrel cam lugs and the cam blocks in the receiver.

Here are some closeups, I'm unfamiliar with the terminology but I'm thinking these are the photos you want to see. To me it looks and feels like there are metal spurs there that have been digging into the frame. Curious if those could be sanded down, or if it a worth just to have the barrel replaced (which is a shame since the bore is spotless).

 

[BMCM]

There is nothing there that needs fixing. I see some artifacts on the frame rails from normal wear at the rear. Up front on the frame rails an impression from where the barrel lands as it is cammed downward out of lockup upon firing. There is nothing in those images needing any kind of repair or polish or dremeling.

To ensure long life, grease the slide rails lightly with a NLG0 grade grease. My preference for this is Lubriplate SFL-0. And most importantly make sure you have a full power factory mainspring in the gun.

You also want to take care not to run the gun with a worn out recoil spring. Factory full power springs only. Since you just acquired the gun I'd replace that spring right off before taking it for a spin.

Cheers
Bill

 

[JohnHL]

Thank you for the pictures, 1ActuaL3.

Your pictures 2, 3, and 4 show the underside of the barrel.

In the center, underside rear of the barrel is a sloping surface that leads in to the chamber, known as the feed ramp. (You probably know this.)

On either side of the feed ramp, on the underside of the barrel are two angled "lugs" that hit the frame when the barrel is recoiling to the rear and pull the barrel down out of battery (locked, firing position) in the slide, allowing the slide to continue moving to the rear.

Those "V" shaped lugs on the barrel typically have a relatively sharp point at their lowest, rearmost apex.

On your barrel, the picture seems to show a "rolled over" or rounded apex on the right hand side lug.

I don't know what would be causing it and maybe it's just some gunk on the lugs, but it sure looks like unnatural wear in the pictures.

Some pictures of those lugs from the sides and from the rear might be helpful.

It's always difficult to diagnose what could be a problem with two dimensional pictures as opposed to seeing and handling the parts in person.

I'm not suggesting your pistol has a problem.

I've got lots of these pistols and never witnessed a failure in that area.

I just seem to be seeing something on your barrel that I've never seen on the dozens of S&W 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen barrels I have (new and used), and I would like to be more certain before I make a pronouncement.

John

 

[JohnHL]

Where are my manners?

Welcome to the Forum, 1ActuaL3!

I hope I'm not scaring you.

I'm just trying to be helpful.

John

 

[oink]

Those "rolled over" or "peened" areas on the barrel look more like burs that should have been addressed at the factory. I think I'd take a fine file and flatten them. You can see the effects of the burs on the frame.

 

[stansdds]

Based on the new photos, I am thinking there are sharp burs on the barrel's cam surfaces and the portion of the receiver where the barrel impacts during cycling is pretty deeply imprinted from the barrel's impact. This could be from lots of shooting, shooting a lot of +P or +P+ ammo, or the recoil spring was never replaced and has been weak for quite a bit of this pistol's time of use.

 

[18DAI]

I just pulled my high round count 4513TSW and lower round count 4563TSW out and looked at them - I don't own a 9mm TSW. Sorry!

My 4513TSW and 4563TSW BOTH have peened aluminum showing on the lower inner edges of the frames camming lugs. On the 4513TSW it is significant and disconcerting to look at. I see nothing similar in the OPs photos. By comparison to my pistol, his looks pristine and new! He still has anodizing on his rails.

AND the most important thing in the OPs photos, is the top edges of his frame camming lugs - they are sharp and straight edged. Member Fastbolt has taught us that THIS area, is the most important for correct unlocking and timing. NOT the lower surfaces. Those will be peened to a degree by virtue of steel impacting aluminum. But it is self limiting, like top strap flame cutting. It goes to a certain point and doesn't get any worse. PROVIDED the recoil springs are maintained and frame lubed.

Y'all are seeing something on the OPs 9mm TSW that I am not. Or I'm missing it. OP, lube that gun and enjoy it. They are extremely durable. I know because I still carry and shoot them. ALL THE TIME. And I haven't broke a TSW.....yet. Regards 18DAI

 

[JohnHL]

18, the O.P. has yet to post a clear picture of the front of the frame camming lugs, so I won't comment on any unusual wear there.

What I am seeing looks like a rolled or peened lower edge on the right hand barrel camming lug.

I don't know what that is and before I go blowing sunshine up the O.P.'s tailpipe, I would like a better look at the components.

BTW, the "ghost" impression left on the frame rails by the barrel when it unlocked and smashed into the frame is not something seen on all alloy framed Smith autos.

I caused that to happen on the first .357Sig conversion I did.

It was a 4043TSW that I had converted to TDA and I installed the .357Sig barrel and 22 pound recoil spring.

After a few shots that I felt were a little harsh, I disassembled the pistol to discover a brand new "ghost" image of the barrel on the rails.

That's why I only run .357Sig in steel framed pistols.

I have seen that "ghost" impression on alloy framed guns with weak springs.

John

 

[18DAI]

Well, I was not "blowing sunshine" to the OP. Simply pointing out that the FRAME camming lugs, as well as the rails on that pistol, look just fine, to me. IIRC, THAT was his inquiry.

Yes, I see that speck on the BARREL lug. Whatever it is. Where it is located, whatever it turns out to be, doesn't impact the camming shoulders in the frame.

Hopefully CALREB and Fastbolt will be along to render an opinion and see if there is anything to be concerned about. Regards 18DAI

 

[Fastbolt]

Here's a couple older pics of my 4013TSW after it had fired 2500+ rounds. The barrel chamber (bottom) slams down onto the top of the frame as part of the normal operation. This can leave marks. Normal. FWIW, there are NO burred spots on the bottom of that 4013TSW barrel, and the markings left on top of the frame are normal,caused by normal cycling during live-fire.



The camming lugs on each side of the barrel engage with the frame camming lugs, which control the camming down/dropping and the release (upward). The aluminum frames show wear differently than steel frames (since aluminum is softer than steel, obviously).

While I'm not there to examine and inspect the OP's gun, I don't see anything on the frame in the pictures that would cause me undue alarm.

That said, it does appear that the barrel's machining left some rolled, burred edges on the bottom of the barrel chamber area, (to each side of the feed ramp). The one on the R/Side (if barrel were held with barrel hood facing UP) outer corner looks like something to which I'd take a red stone and dress it flat (deburring). Ditto on the other side, along the rear outer edge (very small burred spots raised along out edge in pic). Not filing, grinding or polishing. Just flattening and removing the raised, burred spots with a regular 6" red stone. (A file removes metal quickly, and it's easier to make mistakes. )

Congrats on the gun and welcome to the forum.

Using oil or grease is up to you, but something needs to be present on the sides, tops and bottoms of the frame/slide rail grooves. Avoid excessive amounts, as excessive lube can cause its own problems. If the oil/grease is ozzing out and running down along the sides of the frame (next to the magazines), you're probably using too much?

I use a drop or two (small) on each side of the frame rails (which lubes the slide's rails); a large drop on the exterior of the barrel, spread around the barrel, from muzzle to top lug; a small drop on the front of the barrel hood; a small drop (or dab of grease) on each of the frame camming lugs; and any remaining oil or grease on my finger gets wiped around the guide rod. They also recommend adding a very small drop of oil to each side of the hammer's base, where it rotates/rubs within the frame (but don't make it so excessive that it will run off and spread around the rest of the inside of the frame). The bright/worn spots on the frame rails ought to be shiny and wet to the touch in a lubed pistol, but not so wet that the oil runs and drips off the frame, runs all over, etc.

Sometimes, if I'm going to be carrying ad using the gun in a harsh outside environment for an extended period (Coastal air and constant temperature changes, heavy humidity, etc) I'll mix a light slurry of a synthetic oil and synthetic grease, so it stays put better, doesn't thin out, wick away, etc. (An old habit from my 1911 days.)

The factory recommended replacing the recoil & mag springs either every 5000 rounds fired, or every 5 years of service use (loaded, holstered), whichever came first. They said that was a conservative recommendation. Since I was carrying and shooting a lot of +P+ & +P loads in my 3rd gen's, I was a bit more conservative and tried to replace the recoil spring sooner than 5000rds (2500-3000rds) in my issued 6906 and personally owned 3913, since the higher pressure loads can accelerate normal wear & tear. I've found that my mag springs seem to provide longer service if I replace the recoil spring a bit more often.